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BlackDragon0311
12-25-2006, 13:16
Greetings all, first post on here besides the required introduction post (yes I do read the rules unlike some folk), i'm military so I know a good deal but despite what i've read and know concerning you "quiet professionals" even I have a few questions. These are in refrence to prior service, seeing how my time in the Corps is almost done with, i've been heavily considering going over to "the green side" as the army is sometimes known in the Corps, with my sole intent, goal, and purpose going into Special Forces, and with that I have a few questions in regards to that and my prior service:

1. I've been told a million times that if you have completed Marine boot, then Army basic is waived as a requirment, just wanting to confirm that?

2. By the time i'm out I will be a Corporal (E-4), i've heard if getting out and going over to the Army you get at minimum a boost in rank by two, wondering if that is true also?

3. In my introduction post, I stated how I was a school trained infantry rifleman, i've read "Get Selected" and read about the pipeline for SF, with it starting with basic, then infantry basic/AIT, with my prior graduation as a infantryman, is that waived off for me allowing me go right to jump school and then onto SFAS? Also, does my time as a infantryman in the Marines allow me the honor of wearing a infantryman's badge in the big green machine?

4. This is not really in relation to my prior service just a curiosity, but I read a statistic once that there are a good deal of former Marines who make their way over to SF, anyone know about this.

As always I am in awe and inspiried by having worked with SF before however brief it has been, thank you for your responses and comments to my above mentioned questions and have a happy holidays.

Johnny Boy

The Reaper
12-25-2006, 13:34
Johnny:

1. I have heard that too, but do not know it to be a fact. I have heard that the reverse is not always the case.

2. I do not think that you are going to be promoted to SSG upon enlistment in the Army. Enlisted promotions are based on Time In Service, Time in Grade, needs of the Army, and either promotion points, or board selection. There is also required NCO Education Schools that must be attended.

3. Do not confuse an initial entry enlistment (18X) with an in service request to attend SFAS. You would likely have to enlist as an 11B and request Airborne and SFAS. There may be a magic method to enter from another service as an 18X, but I do not know what the process might be. A recruiter should be able to answer that, and most of your other questions. The recruiter you talk to may not be well informed on the options, in that case, call 910 432-1818 and talk to someone at the SF Recruiting Company. The Army will also determine your MOS, though it is extremely likely that you would enter as an 11B. I do not believe that you will automatically get a CIB, though I have heard that Marines with a Combat Action Ribbon had the roughly equivalent award. Units normally intiate combat awards requests, not individuals.

4. I have seen very few in-service Marines going SF, maybe a half dozen in four years.

If you are not able to pursue your plan, you may also want to consider joining a Guard SF unit and if you make it, applying for an AD transfer during the SFQC. Last I heard, that was not a problem.

Good luck.

TR

Surgicalcric
12-25-2006, 14:12
To expound on TR's comments:

1.) I had a prior service marine in my OSUT platoon. He joined us at week 5 and remained with us the remainder of Infantry School.

2.) Not true. The Marine who was in my OSUT class was an E-4 in the Corp and was still an E-4 with us.

3.) It is my understanding to be authorized the wear of the Infantry Cord you must graduate from Infantry School. The CAR Marines are authorized to wear is not interchangeable with the CIB Army Infantrymen are authorized to wear. You are however authorized the wear of your CAR in Army Class A's.

There have been instances where prior service soldiers have been allowed to enlist into the 18X option but it generally takes some determination on the enlistees part. It seems USAREC tries to save them for Initial Entry Trainees. If I am not mistaken the Recruiting Battalion CO (O-5) is the (dis)approving authority in this instance.

There is a chance you could attend SFAS while still in the Corp. I am unfamiliar with the procedure but there were 2 Navy officers at SFAS with me. Once selected they were transferred to the Army to attend the SFQC. I would imagine an SF recruiter would have the G2 on it. See TR's post for the POC.

4.) I know of a few Marines in the SFQC at this time, maybe around a six. All of them are in the NG as opposed to being transfers from AD or guys who reenlisted after ETS-ing.

HTH,

Crip

BlackDragon0311
12-25-2006, 15:13
A quick thank you to you both for your speedy and informative answers. I'll clarify a bit, as I do not want to go SFAS while still in the Corps, I have five months left in the Corps and am getting out regardless, my interest would be after . I'll try and go a bit more specific and give some more background to my questions so you can better help if you can, if not i'm sure I can track down a army recruiter or call the number provided.

In response to your answers to:

1-From day one in boot I was told that graduation from Marine boot and becomming a Marine meant despite what service you may want to later go to you would not have to go to their equivilant of boot as Marine boot is considered by many the toughest of initial entry to to the military, but that anyone wishing to become a Marine WOULD be required to go through boot, or our version of OCS if they were an officer prior.

2- I had heard from several folks about this sort of thing happening, and given that when/if that time comes i'll have had four years as a Marine, all four as a grunt (not including the year i'll have spent through the Fleet Assistance Program working as a MP though the actual MOS designation is sentry), i'm not entirley sure at what rank in the army your considered a NCO but with the Corps once you hit Corporal (E3) your a NCO, but I understand what your saying so i'm sure a recruiter would be able to better clarify.

3-This would be when I am out of the Marines and trying for SFAS, as i'd never get any approval to go to SFAS or any other school in the Corps being with my time in so short and the fact that grunts dont really get to go to alota schools that I know of. If you could clarify to me what a 11B is as i'm mainly unfamiliar with Army MOS designations and so forth, my sister and brother in law are not really to helpful either on that despite both being active duty army, lol. I do have a combat action ribbon, I was under the (possibly mistaken?) impression that once you were school trained and certified as infantry you were awarded the Infantry badge to show you were indeed infantry, not that it was a combat award, aside from EOD badge, jump wings and scuba bubble Marines do not wear badges designating them as anything special despite any awards or certifications, some clarification would be helpful on this matter.

4- This was my fault for not being more clear on how I was describing this, as I was not asking how many in-service guys you had seen, I was relating to how many "former Marines" as we called them, that is to say those that had gotten out of the Corps, had gone into the army and become SF, I had read there were a good number of former Marines who went over to the green side and became SF.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas, the fact that i'm not getting any scathing remarks or any pokes and prods for being a Marine or asking stupid questions makes me once again thankful for having found this board.

Johnny Boy

Surgicalcric
12-25-2006, 15:45
1.) As was stated above you either heard wrong or were told something inaccurate. The fact that there was a former Marine 'Grunt' in my Infantry School class should tell you something. 11B is the Army MOS designation for Infantry.

2.) Regardless of your years in the Marines, you arent going to be promoted past your current grade.

3.) The blue Infantry Cord is awarded to those holding the MOS of 11B.

According to AR670-1, 28-30. Distinctive items authorized for Infantry personnel

a. Cord, shoulder.

(1) Description. The shoulder cord is infantry blue, and it is formed by a series of interlocking square knots around a center cord.

(2) Approval authority. The commanding general of the U.S. Army Infantry Center authorizes the award of the shoulder cord to infantrymen who have successfully completed the appropriate training. For Army National Guard soldiers, commanders of divisions, separate brigades, infantry regiments, the infantry scout group, and state adjutants general for separate infantry battalions and companies are authorized to award the shoulder cord to Army National Guard soldiers who have successfully completed the appropriate training...

...(4) By whom worn.

(a) Officers and enlisted personnel of the infantry, holding an infantry PMOS or specialty, who have been awarded the Combat Infantryman badge, the Expert Infantry badge, or who have successfully completed the basic unit phase of an Army training program or equivalent.

(b) Enlisted personnel who have completed one station unit training (OSUT) resulting in the award of an infantry PMOS.

(c) Infantry officers who have graduated from the resident infantry officer basic or advanced course.

(d) Infantry officers who have graduated from the Infantry Officer Candidate Course (during mobilization).

(e) Infantry officers and enlisted personnel in the Reserve components who hold an infantry PMOS or specialty.

(5) When worn. Infantry personnel (as described above) may wear the infantry cord as follows.

(a) During the period of assignment to an infantry regiment, brigade, separate infantry battalion, infantry company (including the headquarters and headquarters company of an infantry division), infantry platoon, or infantry TDA unit. In addition, infantrymen assigned to infantry sections or squads within units other than infantry units may wear the cord when authorized by battalion or higher-level commanders.

(b) During the period assigned for duty as an Army recruiter or advisor, ROTC instructor, or member of the staff and faculty of the U.S. Military Academy, as long as personnel retain their infantry PMOS.

(c) During the period of assignment at brigade- or lower-level BT or AIT units, or in OSUT infantry units, as long as personnel retain their infantry PMOS.

(d) Infantry OSUT and IOBC graduates may wear the cord en route to their initial follow-on infantry assignment.

(e) Soldiers en route from an assignment where wear of the shoulder cord was authorized are permitted to wear the shoulder cord if they are pending reassignment to another organization authorized wear of the cord, or when assigned to a separation point for discharge purposes.

b. Insignia disk; branch and U.S. insignia.

(1) Description. A plastic disk in infantry blue, 1-1/14 inches in diameter.

(2) Approval authority. The same as in paragraph a(2) , above. The insignia is issued without cost to enlisted personnel.

(3) How worn. The blue infantry disk is worn secured beneath the branch and U.S. insignia disks, with a ?;-inch border around the insignia. infantry personnel wear the insignia on the Army green, blue, and white uniforms (see fig 28-173 ).

(4) By whom worn.

(a) Enlisted infantry personnel, who hold an infantry PMOS; who were awarded the Combat Infantryman badge or the Expert Infantry badge, or who have successfully completed the basic unit phase of an Army training program, or the equivalent.

(b) Enlisted personnel who completed one station unit training (OSUT) and were awarded an infantry PMOS.

(c) Enlisted personnel of the Reserve components holding an infantry PMOS.

Other than the above there isnt a badge or other device awarded for the MOS of Infantryman. If you are speaking of the EIB (Expert Infantryman's Badge), it is only authorized for wear by those who have successfully completed the EIB course. The CIB (Combat Infantryman's Badge) is awarded for actions in combat as an ARMY Infantryman. The CAR doesnt transfer to an EIB or CIB when you enlist in the Army nor does your previous status as a Marine Infatryman authorize you to wear either.

4.) There are former Marines who have become SF; I had one as a TAC. It is more common to see them in the NG coming thru the SFQC than as Active Duty soldiers coming thru the course.

This should clear up all 4 of your questions.

Crip

BlackDragon0311
12-25-2006, 16:53
Once again thank you for your interesting and impressive knowledge display and helpful answers. I'm still in the dark here about whether I would be required to attend basic again or have to go through infantry training again as both would seem redundant given my training and experience thus far, but your answers do answer the promotion question and the badge question, as I was unaware that the badges were for completed courses and the cord was for being infantryman. Leaving those questions to linger, i'd prefer to get the oppinion of the professionals here, well we're all professionals here but you all are cleary alot better trained and more experienced than I am but i'm sure you understand:

1. Given what all I have asked and learned from folks on here so far, would you see it better to go the NG route and go SF than a simple AD enlistment?

2. Do any of you see my years in the Marines as a plus or minus for possible entry into SFQC?

3. Is there a reason i'd have to go to the army form of infantry school? I'm a school trained infantryman with years of experience, is there a different way army infantry is trained from Marine infantry? I'm not saying either is better, though the structure of the Marine Corps puts ALOT of emphasis on supporting the infantry as some may have noticed, lol.

Thanks again for your responses TR and Crip.

Surgicalcric
12-25-2006, 17:28
...Leaving those questions to linger, i'd prefer to get the opinion of the professionals here, well we're all professionals here but you all are cleary alot better trained and more experienced than I am but i'm sure you understand:

I have no idea what you just said there. By "professionals" were you referring to Quiet Professionals or those with experience with the topics you are inquiring about?

That said,

1. The answer depends on what you wish to do and what you have waiting for you after the SFQC. For instance, I am a NG soldier who was a firefighter/paramedic for 12 years prior to coming here. It would have been foolish for me, IMNSHO, to throw 12 years towards retirement away when I can do both. Once I graduate the SFQC (no comments from the peanut gallery; you know who you are) I can choose to deploy as much as I want to, with other NGSF units, or only when my unit deploys. I also have just as many opportunities as my AD counterpart for follow-on schools.

2. I think any experience is better than none as long as you arent a, "well in the USMC we did it this way." None of the instructors will wanna hear that. If you keep your ears open and mouth closed you will be fine. Mind you there is nothing wrong with adding your .02 just dont preface it with "in my experience in the USMC."

3. I can only answer your question based on my experience, which I did for you in my previous responses. Whether or not the Marine I previously mentioned pushed the issue with his recruiter, or just rolled with the punches, I cant tell you. I know he was there along with the rest of us. The person to give you a definate yes/no would be an active duty recruiter if thats the route you choose. I can tell you for certain if you choose the NG route you wouldnt have to attend OSUT and would be awarded the 11B MOS based on your current Marine qualifications. Why there is a difference, I dont know.

Again, I hope this helps.

Crip

BlackDragon0311
12-25-2006, 17:54
Thanks again Crip, when I meant professionals I meant those of us in the military who are of a more direct action/combat role than say a clerk or cook, etc. I will definatly be considering what all you have been suggesting to me for sure, NG does not sound too bad as regardless of MOS atleast i'd be back in my beloved Texas, and the flexability that your saying comes with being NG sounds pretty good as well as deployment ratio and so forth, and dont worry i'd never go into another mans house and start tellin him how I do shit in my home, so i'd not pull the, "in the Corps we did it this way" crap, everyone has their own way. Thanks again Crip.

Johnny Boy

dangerman
12-25-2006, 18:12
I am pretty sure its not automatic, and by no means to SSgt., but look into the possibility your Corporal's Course might count toward the Army Warrior Leader Course required to make Sgt. Still a bitch to get promoted in the Guard, for 11B anyway, but hey it's a start. I know two guys in the NG that were told theirs would, both were prior 0311, now 11B. The only way I have seen E4 to E6 is to go OCS, and then it is for paygrade and your ID only, you dont go around saying "hi, I am SSgt Soupnuts" or wear the rank even. Good luck to ya.

BlackDragon0311
12-25-2006, 18:20
thanks for the input dangerman, I should clarify that I am not yet a CPL, my cutting score for the next quarter might or might not get updated in time to pick it up but regardless i'll be getting promoted before my EAS in June, so i'm doubtful that i'll be going to the Corporals course, and being with PMO on base not sure if they'd be willin to let me go for that time, crime never stops ya know.


Johnny Boy

TAN2GREEN
12-25-2006, 22:43
Johnny Boy,

I am in the course as we speak, you need not to worry about the Q-Course until you get there. I was a recruiter for a year in Virginia. With that I will tell you that it is up to the MEPS that you get your 18X contract. (chances are that they won't give you the option and they will be dicks about it, keep your cool ) The good news is that you are only a E-4 which goes to your benefit when processing at the MEPS because you do not require a grade determination ( takes about a month to process). Now you need to get 11B airborne option at the very least . If you do get airborne infantry in your contract then you will definetely get a shot at going to selection which is the most important thing for you bro. After airborne school call the FT Benning SF recruiters on post and they will hook you up. Hopefully you haven't got into any trouble making it hard for you to get a security clearance (also very important). You might get lucky with an 18X contract but who knows. If you want to do this you want to go active, not guard ( no disrespect to guard guys ) because the guard guys I know all are trying their best to change over to active duty SF. As for the Marines, good job doing that but the Army is very different especially SOF. Good luck with whatever you do John Boy, the training is alot of fun. These men are very professional and again it's a hell of alot of fun.

God Speed
T2G

" BE AN ASSET NOT A LIABILITY "

Team Sergeant
12-25-2006, 22:47
Once I graduate the SFQC (no comments from the peanut gallery; you know who you are)
Crip

I just spit beer on the monitor and fell out of my chair.....:D

Jgood
12-25-2006, 22:52
Just my .02

Just got a 18x Contract as a prior service soldier took about 2 months for it to go through(waited on a grade term. waiver). If you have a good recruiter they can help with the process.

I served with two former marines, that were prior infantry who did not have to go through infantry school again.

Being prior infantry my 18x pipe line is a little different, I skip infantry school, and airborne( already jump qual,) and start right into SOPC. If you got a 18x contract you would be on a similar course I would imagine.


You best bet do like TR said and talk to a recruiter or a SF recruiter, they have up to date info.

Surgicalcric
12-25-2006, 23:12
I just spit beer on the monitor and fell out of my chair.....:D

Whats so funny...

Crip

The Reaper
12-25-2006, 23:44
....If you want to do this you want to go active, not guard ( no disrespect to guard guys ) because the guard guys I know all are trying their best to change over to active duty SF....

Solid advice, up to the above.

Unless something has recently changed, at a point in the SFQC, Guard enlisted soldiers in the pipeline may request transfer to AD. A board meets and the candidates are evaluated for AD accession. In the past, very few were refused the opportunity.

Just wanted to clear that up.

TR

Surgicalcric
12-25-2006, 23:57
...If you want to do this you want to go active, not guard ( no disrespect to guard guys ) because the guard guys I know all are trying their best to change over to active duty SF...

If you dont mind, I would just like to know whats the basis of that advice?

Though I suppose its a fair trade. I know a dozen or so AD guys, in various stages of the SFQC, who wish they were in the NG instead.

Crip

BlackDragon0311
12-26-2006, 02:47
Just out of curiosity, despite the fact that the war on terror has called for a heavy increase and want for Special Forces, do AD SF teams get prefrence when it comes to mission selection, weapons, schools, training, etc as opposed to NG SF teams?


Johnny Boy

Team Sergeant
12-26-2006, 10:19
Just out of curiosity, despite the fact that the war on terror has called for a heavy increase and want for Special Forces, do AD SF teams get prefrence when it comes to mission selection, weapons, schools, training, etc as opposed to NG SF teams?
Johnny Boy

Every Special Forces Group is unlike the other with different missions and areas of operation.

Curiosity didn't kill the cat, I did. Save your "curiosity" for the zoo.

TS

BlackDragon0311
12-26-2006, 12:53
Fair enough TS, i'll leave it at that then.


Johnny Boy

rjoshi1982
06-09-2008, 23:07
hey all,
I have read the posts, and have my contract for the 18x set to start july 3rd of 08. i have accepted the fact that i will have to be in basic, but because i am going in as an E5.

1. Are the drill sergeants going have their fun with me?

2. how are marines treated in basic?

just curious, i am confident in all aspects as to leadership, pt, and rucking. I am totally motivated for this journey to become a sf soldier, but the wait is killing me. i am field radio operator, served as one with a bunch of grunts in iraq. Marine Corp boot camp was utter chaos.

3. how is army basic training compared to it? anyone?

Today&Tomorrow
06-14-2008, 17:25
Today I heard about a Marine officer that took 30 days of leave and attended Selection. After completing selection he went back to his unit and started a Interservice transfer request. Here are my questions.

1. How would you be able to take leave and attend a Selection? What is required to attend? Orders I am sure, but how was he able to do that without his chain of command knowing?
2. If a Marine was to attend Selection what would he be required to wear? I have heard that very recently soldiers are required to wear the ACUs, would a Marine wear the same or his own digital uniforms?
3. Are you able to attend Selection before requesting a Interservice Transfer?
4. I have been researching and googling Interservice Transfers, but have not came up with some concrete information on the process, and who approves or disapproves the request? Does anyone have any good information on this process? Has anyone seen this work on the Marine side of the house? How difficult is it to get approved?
5. What would be the POC for trying to attend Selection?

Thank you in advance for all your help....

The Reaper
06-14-2008, 21:06
Today I heard about a Marine officer that took 30 days of leave and attended Selection. After completing selection he went back to his unit and started a Interservice transfer request. Here are my questions.

1. How would you be able to take leave and attend a Selection? What is required to attend? Orders I am sure, but how was he able to do that without his chain of command knowing?
2. If a Marine was to attend Selection what would he be required to wear? I have heard that very recently soldiers are required to wear the ACUs, would a Marine wear the same or his own digital uniforms?
3. Are you able to attend Selection before requesting a Interservice Transfer?
4. I have been researching and googling Interservice Transfers, but have not came up with some concrete information on the process, and who approves or disapproves the request? Does anyone have any good information on this process? Has anyone seen this work on the Marine side of the house? How difficult is it to get approved?
5. What would be the POC for trying to attend Selection?

Thank you in advance for all your help....

Yeah, well, I heard about a 100 MPG carburetor, a genie in a bottle, and a talking dog.:rolleyes:

I do not think you can just drop in on SFAS and attend without orders and an ATTARS slot. I can pretty much guarantee that an officer cannot do that.

You need to speak with the Marine in question, or an SF recruiter.

Why you would ask for that sort of advice from people you do not even know on an outhouse rumor is incredible to me. Nothing you read here would be enforceable. Follow the rules, ask the right people.

TR

Today&Tomorrow
06-14-2008, 22:06
To clarify that it is not just a rumor I heard through the grapevine, today I was with some students going through the Q Course and we were talking about things, and the subject was brought up. They attended Selection with a Marine officer, who they had no idea was a Marine officer till the last couple of days. They were talking to him and he told them he was on block leave attending selection.

Yeah, well, I heard about a 100 MPG carburetor, a genie in a bottle, and a talking dog.:rolleyes:

I do not think you can just drop in on SFAS and attend without orders and an ATTARS slot. I can pretty much guarantee that an officer cannot do that.

You need to speak with the Marine in question, or an SF recruiter.

Why you would ask for that sort of advice from people you do not even know on an outhouse rumor is incredible to me. Nothing you read here would be enforceable. Follow the rules, ask the right people.

TR

SF_BHT
06-14-2008, 22:59
As TR said, ORDERS/ATTARS is needed. The Grape vine is not trustworthy and as stated before go find said Marine and see what is the Truth. He could have been attending on orders and his unit just happened to be on Block Leave which made it work out better.

Rumors have a effective range of 0 meters........

Books
06-15-2008, 18:31
hey all,
I have read the posts, and have my contract for the 18x set to start july 3rd of 08. i have accepted the fact that i will have to be in basic, but because i am going in as an E5.

1. Are the drill sergeants going have their fun with me?

2. how are marines treated in basic?

just curious, i am confident in all aspects as to leadership, pt, and rucking. I am totally motivated for this journey to become a sf soldier, but the wait is killing me. i am field radio operator, served as one with a bunch of grunts in iraq. Marine Corp boot camp was utter chaos.

3. how is army basic training compared to it? anyone?

Good God man, learn to use the shift key. A functional command of the English language will serve you well in this life. So much so, that they most likely won't select you in SFAS without it.

To answer your questions (as they are so absurd that I feel compelled):
1. Yes.
2. If you keep you mouth shut, no one will ever know and this issue will be moot.
3. Worry about this later.

Best regards,

Books