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SRT31B
12-14-2006, 17:05
During my deployment, quite a few of our guys have been "tasked out" or attached to CJSOTF, or other teams out at FOBs. Sometimes this has broken up team cohesion, or brought about other negative consequences.

Since our actions in OIF/OEF aren't likely to be over anytime soon, has there been any thought given to assigning at least one MP team to the ODB to handle all EC/POW aspects until such time that they can be transferred to the nearest holding facility?

This would be much the same as a CSH has a team to help with physical security and whatever other tasks the commander can dream up (MP=multi-purpose).

Adding a small team of MPs to the company TOE would seem to help eliminate the problem of having to seek resources from outside units and help streamline the operations of the ODAs in the field, ODBs supporting them, and the transfer of those captured.

Just curious.

less than 60 days!!

7624U
12-14-2006, 17:10
So what your saying is you would like MP's to be attached to SF ODA's so you can wear a SF Combat Patch :p

Kraut783
12-14-2006, 18:26
Hahahaha...can you see SF and Big Army agreeing to that :rolleyes:

....and what 7624U said.

Pete
12-14-2006, 18:41
Lets see. An SF Company could use some MPs for PWs, an Infantry squad could help with some guard/security issues, so the B Team can operate 24/7 a beefed up Ops/Comms slice could be used, lets not forget riggers, a few cooks and .... did I forget anybody?

I don't see it.

Pete

The Reaper
12-14-2006, 19:07
Lets see. An SF Company could use some MPs for PWs, an Infantry squad could help with some guard/security issues, so the B Team can operate 24/7 a beefed up Ops/Comms slice could be used, lets not forget riggers, a few cooks and .... did I forget anybody?

I don't see it.

Pete

Nurses.

Lots of nurses.

A finance detachment, with plenty of money.

And some dedicated aviation assets.:D

TR

SRT31B
12-14-2006, 19:10
During this past year, there have been a number of times that members of my company were pulled to CJSOTF to support them. This was in addition to the regular missions assigned that we deployed for, but now we have to do it short handed.

Now, I do realize its my battalion's fault for sending us just above the minimum authorized strength for the company, and we also need to adapt, improvise, and overcome... but at the same time, in order to make things easier on units like mine where every body counts why not incorporate those people into the organic makeup of the taskforce? Doing so would allow the permanent presence of MP soldiers for the duties that (according to DA) other MOSs can no longer perform. I'm not gonna lie, anyone can do it, but for some reason (post Abu Gharib) big green army pushed for all EC/EPW missions to be handled by MPs. This put a bigger strain on the regiment and pushed a lot of us, such as my company, into the I/R business when we're supposed to be combat support.

I'm quite confident that anyone in group, QP or not, can handle their business and there really isn't a need for us to be there... but I don't get paid to make decisions like that and someone a lot higher than me decided to take our guys to work with the teams. Since this is an ongoing thing, the question was simply "does this sound like it would make things simpler?" Case in point, the CSM from 3/3 (i think) arguing with the BDE CSM for my taskforce about keeping personnel at their location or returning them. CJSOTF wanted them, the taskforce wanted them back since that wasn't their original mission. It just turned into a big pissing contest and the rest of us got screwed when the manpower requirements went up and we didnt have bodies to fill those slots since they were at kAAF supporting the teams.

Yes, we do have a few people in my company now authorized to wear the patch, and a few of them were in the right place at the right time and actually got to do a few missions with some of the teams. But, that again was a problem with my command because... you guessed it, "thats not our mission, knock it off."

Obviously, the stigma of being an MP is still equally as present here as it is in other circles... I got it... Air Assault, moving out to draw fire.

Pete
12-14-2006, 19:18
.....Obviously, the stigma of being an MP is still equally as present here as it is in other circles... I got it... Air Assault, moving out to draw fire.


You were doing good up until the end. As a SGM I would beg, borrow or steal any warm body I could get my hand on prior to a deployment. All so I would not have to steal from the A Teams.

What I would want and what the Army will slot/pay for are not the same.

Sure the CSMs were in a pissing contest. They were fighting over warm bodies, not MPs. If the SF Folks lost you they would have to replace you out of hide, and that ain't cheap.

Has nothing to do with being an MP.

Pete

BMT
12-14-2006, 19:22
I liked TR's answer:
Reminds me of a story told about the Tac Fighter Wing at Da Nang.

They requested 800 lbs of nurse's. They thought just maybe they would get 8 or 10 with the toatal weight being 800 lbs.

Plane with nurse's called the Wing CP and ask for an escort and transportation for the new nurse's.
Half the Wing fell out to meet the new gals. Plane landed and 2 nurse's got off, total weight 800 lbs. :D

BMT

SRT31B
12-14-2006, 19:26
I gotcha, makes sense. Don't always see the big picture at my level. ;)

Warrior-Mentor
12-14-2006, 19:28
Despite being a requirement for the current operations, it won't happen.

Why?

'Cause TDAs are really built for the "peacetime" Army...:rolleyes:

The Reaper
12-14-2006, 19:35
SRT:

SF TO&Es have at times, included MPs, Engineers, CA, PSYOP, etc.

They may again at some point in the future.

Sorry that you feel that you are being mismanaged. We would love to have more attachments, but Big Army makes non-SOF TO&E attachments.

TR

SRT31B
12-14-2006, 19:49
No prob, sir. Just an idea.

Drink water and drive on... :lifter

NousDefionsDoc
12-14-2006, 21:14
Nurses.

Lots of nurses.

A finance detachment, with plenty of money.

And some dedicated aviation assets.:D

TR
Remember when Slinky KIAd those nurses' rabbit at Palmarola? I can't remember the name of their club or little area or whatever it was. Good times.

lksteve
12-14-2006, 21:23
okay, so my memory ain't what it used to be...but it seems during the Vietnam era, there was a concept of a theater-level SAF...(Security Assistance Force, Security Action Force, CRS, CRAFT, etc)...

the force was centered around a light infantry brigade and a Special Forces group...there were various support elements attached to the commands, as TR stated...

i seem to recall that the 173rd/1st SF were one SAF, the 193rd and the 8th SFGA were another...the last time i dealt with this doctrine was after OCS when Richard and i were indentured to the FID/IDAD committee of the Infantry School while waiting for IOBC...

i do know the 1st Group had an Engineer detachement (563rd or 536th, IIRC)...
and i seem to recall that there were attached MPs, as well...but that was another era, and the task organization was for a specific purpose...

The Reaper
12-15-2006, 01:15
Remember when Slinky KIAd those nurses' rabbit at Palmarola? I can't remember the name of their club or little area or whatever it was. Good times.

All of the times on 54 were good times, hermano!

TR

18C4V
12-15-2006, 02:12
I know in A-stan in 2002 and 2003 there was an MP company assigned to our FOB. This MP company handled all of the BDOC stuff and ran the two gates that we had. With all the teams pushed forward to firebases/safe houses there was no way bn could run ops and do base security. THe MP's also did convoy escorts for the BN resupply runs.

My team personally borrowed female MP's on some of our missions to help search females. At our firebase, we had two platoons of 11 Bravo's from the 82nd there. They handled all of the BDOC and guard duty for the detainess.

After we were RIPed by 3rd Group, I later heard that there were MP's actually assigned to some of the firebases.

brownapple
12-15-2006, 06:40
Got to be careful though... the more support functions you add on, the closer you get to the Conventional Army's tooth to tail ratio (what, around 1 to 11?).

SF is very unusual in that an SF Group has a tooth to tail ratio of something like 2-4 to 1 (depending on ODA strength and the various HQ strengths).

Razor
12-15-2006, 12:15
My team personally borrowed female MP's on some of our missions to help search females.

That's you're story and you're sticking to it, right? ;)

18C4V
12-15-2006, 21:43
That's you're story and you're sticking to it, right? ;)


LOL,
From what I heard, there's some female MP's in one MP company out there with 19th and 3rd Group Coins and T-shirts.:D

SRT31B
12-15-2006, 22:51
Yes... we know...

"Per the commander, Camp Vance is off limits..."

of course they didn't go into detail, but we all know. At least somebody is having some fun.