M-4 Magazines [Archive] - Professional Soldiers ®

Gene Econ

11-19-2006, 22:03

I bought a Rock River M4 in October. Great rifle. I was talking with a guy in my section about it (he has one, too) and the topic of magazines came up. I have six right now. I was curious how many anyone else owning an M4 has?

Monsoon65:

Roger -- do you understand the Cold War? You have two issues that need to be cleared up. First, you have what was known during the Cold War as a 'Gap'. In your terms, this is a 'Magazine Gap'. Six magazines of what type? I know fellows with thirty each original twenty round Colt M-16 magazines and many more thirty round magazines of a variety of issue.

Also be advised, an M-4 is a Carbine, not a Service Rifle or even an 'Assault Rifle'. I term them 'Malfunction Prone Ersatz Assault Rifles'.

As your public profile indicates you are part of the Postal Service, your asking how many magazines honest citizens own is making some of us honest citizens wonder why you ask?

Kisses.

Gene

Razor

11-19-2006, 22:27

Monsoon, with the recent changes in Congress, and given the home state gun-control legislation history of one soon-to-be majority leader, I'd recommend buying more while you still can.

Monsoon65

11-20-2006, 01:26

Gene Econ: I was just wondering what one person thought was enough and another thought was a good start! I read somewhere that a guy had 70+ 30 round magazines and the reason was that when he went to the range, he hated to have to reload while he was there.

Razor: I agree 100%. I'm buying more as we speak because of just that reason.

Team Sergeant

11-20-2006, 08:37

I have six right now. I was curious how many anyone else owning an M4 has?

All I need.;)

The Reaper

11-20-2006, 10:41

Not as many as I want.

TR

7624U

11-20-2006, 10:48

12 of my own
access to 100's if the $hit hit the fan.
ive got a squad of students to protect me lol

MAB32

11-20-2006, 11:01

Evidently, I don't have enough either.:eek:

The Reaper

11-20-2006, 11:50

When I buy a new pistol, I automatically buy a minimum of six mags to go with it.

If I like it and plan to carry or use it on a regular basis (especially if it uses a high capacity mag), I up it to ten mags, considering that you need range mags, spares you leave in the car or out around the house, etc. A mag-fed firearm without a good mag is a single-shot, straight-pull weapon.

A semi-auto rifle using a high-cap mag would require a minimum of eight to start with. As a civilian, that should be plenty for anything but bans preventing future purchases or a zombie invasion. If you have expended over 200 rounds and have not had the opportunity to take ten seconds to reload one or more using stripper clips, you are either LE or are taking on LE.

If I were anticipating not being able to obtain more or were going to be practicing and training with it as a military rifle, I would like to have 18-24. You can reduce that a bit if you have several rifles using a common mag, but as you can see from previous mag discussions here, I carried a minimum of 17 30 round M-4 mags in the woods. Some teammates carried more, only a few carried less.

As the saying goes, when asked "How much ammo should I carry?", the correct response is, "How much CAN you carry?" IMHO, the only time you can have too much ammo is when you are trying to swim.

TR

Air.177

11-20-2006, 12:33

IMHO, the only time you can have too much ammo is when you are trying to swim.

TR

Or you are on fire.

Once again, TR speaks the truth. C Products was offering 30 round mags with Chrome silicon springs and Magpul followers for something like $99 + shipping per 10 mags. Not a bad thing to snag if you ask me. I believe they are also fixing to offer a group buy discount over on ar15.com in the equipment exchange at even lower rates for members of that site.

Good times,
Blake

Tuukka

11-20-2006, 13:11

Just as a general observation, check the condition of the magazines regularly and DX those that show issues and replace them.

The Reaper

11-20-2006, 13:16

Or you are on fire.

Once again, TR speaks the truth. C Products was offering 30 round mags with Chrome silicon springs and Magpul followers for something like $99 + shipping per 10 mags. Not a bad thing to snag if you ask me. I believe they are also fixing to offer a group buy discount over on ar15.com in the equipment exchange at even lower rates for members of that site.

Good times,
Blake

Good gouge.

$9.70 each for the mags described to Mil/LE. Deal of the month.

Just ordered a few more.;)

TR

x SF med

11-20-2006, 13:32

"How much CAN you carry?" IMHO, the only time you can have too much ammo is when you are trying to swim.

TR

Blub, blub, blub Yeah, that is a bummer, especially if you've 'modified' your LBE. ( so, you've 550'd your pistol belt together to add 2 extra mag pouches, and are preparing to cross a "shallow" ford, 10th step in - the river goes 10' deep and you've got a full load, yes, you become an anchor) maybe we need to add another piece of equipment to the combat soldier's inventory - self inflating BCs built into the body armor or LBE?

Wouldn''t help if you were on fire though, would it?:confused:

Air.177

11-20-2006, 14:19

Wouldn''t help if you were on fire though, would it?:confused:

I dunno, fill them with Halon or similar fire suppressant, and they could be.

STR8SHTR

11-20-2006, 16:29

I have about 20 -30 (28) round AR magazines on hand right now and about to order 10-20 more. I know I can't use them all at once, however they do tend to go TU from time to time. It is also nice to have alot of spares on hand when attending classes so you don't spend every moment when not on the line stuffing mags.

Pete

11-20-2006, 16:45

......so you don't spend every moment when not on the line stuffing mags.

Classes are one thing but.....

Sometimes it's nice just to take a break from shooting and slowly reload some mags while you observe the action on the rest of the firing line.

No need to hurry, be happy.

kgoerz

11-20-2006, 18:34

I have 12 I maintain, but who knows how many lying around the shed.....Heard a good technique about Mags at training the other day. Instructor said "I number all my mags and when I have a problem with one I clean it perform maintenance on it. If I have a problem again with the same Mag it go's in the trash" Pretty good advice I thought.

Monsoon65

11-20-2006, 21:02

As the saying goes, when asked "How much ammo should I carry?", the correct response is, "How much CAN you carry?" IMHO, the only time you can have too much ammo is when you are trying to swim.
TR

I stole your statement, "The only time you have too much ammo is when you're trying to swim" when we first started to do planning about carrying M16's on our aircraft. Being on fire is a good point to remember, too.

As many have said, I'm going to stock up on more in case the ban rears it's ugly head again.

Gene Econ

11-20-2006, 21:43

Classes are one thing but.....Sometimes it's nice just to take a break from shooting and slowly reload some mags while you observe the action on the rest of the firing line. No need to hurry, be happy.

Pete:

I couldn't agree more. I would insist that the ammo be located a good 100 yards behind the line, and under cover from rain, snow, sleet during the winter; and sun during the summer. The guys could leave the firing line, get under some cover from the elements, remove helmets, body armor, etc and leisurely load magazines while smoking, pounding down water, eating, and generally cooling out and or getting away from the noise for a few minutes.

Results: Sustainment of very high levels of performance throughout a training day with much less consumption of ammunition -- plus guys who wanted to come back and train the next day!

You are describing what I call 'common sense' training.

Gene

Gene Econ

11-20-2006, 21:55

Heard a good technique about Mags at training the other day. Instructor said "I number all my mags and when I have a problem with one I clean it perform maintenance on it. If I have a problem again with the same Mag it go's in the trash" Pretty good advice I thought.

KG:

Either this guy has some real poorly made magazines or his M-4 has problems.

I am using some 20 round M-16 Magazines that are at least forty years old, and they function perfectly from three different AR-15 lowers and uppers.

I have been using the same four M-14 magazines (GI Issue) with my M-14 for twenty years now at a rate of about 5K rounds per year fired for ten solid years, and so far there have been no failures of these magazines.

I picked up about thirty old .45 ACP military magazines out of DRMO for free and so far only one of them has failed to function properly out of three different M-1911's.

If this guy is using an issued M-4, the problem isn't magazines.

Gene

kgoerz

11-21-2006, 18:47

Either this guy has some real poorly made magazines or his M-4 has problems.

He didn't say he has problems with mags all the time but when he doe's.This is how he keeps track of the problem with his Weapons Magazines.

NousDefionsDoc

11-21-2006, 19:43

Sounds like a good idea kg - we should think about doing it.

kgoerz

11-21-2006, 20:31

Sounds like a good idea kg - we should think about doing it.

Ditto...already have it on the list

Gene Econ

11-21-2006, 21:13

Sounds like a good idea kg - we should think about doing it.

Doc:

Well, you and KG please chuck your 'bad' magazines into a box and when it is full or you guys accumulate ten of them, just send them to me. I will pay the shipping.

Have seen too many magazines not work, then do work, then not work etc. Mostly with M-4s. Have put the same magazines into M-16A2's or even my own variety of AR-15s and they functioned just fine.

I can count on one hand the number of issued magazines that were so poorly made they would not feed with an issued M-16A2. If they are being pushed through an M-4, my bets would go with the magazine being just fine.

The M-4 is a design compromise that walks the edge of reliability.

So please do send me your 'bad' magazines as you see fit. I will certainly put them to use.

Gene

Peregrino

11-21-2006, 22:41

KG - I'm with you. I've been numbering/marking my magazines for years. One FTF gets it "serviced", two strikes and it's gone. Sorry GE, if it fails to function in ANY of my weapons, it gets crushed. Mags are cheap, reliability is priceless. Damage to the feed lips or dents in the body just aren't worth messing with. And yes, I have ancient magazines too. I've tried to take care of them, especially when it was hard to get high cap mags. My only concession to upgrades has been to change to the Mag Pull followers. So far, so good. Wish they made them for the 20 rd. mags; I've got some VN era mags with the metal followers that "stick". (I haven't trashed them yet because the bodies are still serviceable and Colt mags for my HP rifles are hard to find at reasonable prices.) My .02 - Peregrino

Ambush Master

11-21-2006, 23:09

Gene Econ

11-22-2006, 19:34

One FTF gets it "serviced", two strikes and it's gone. Sorry GE, if it fails to function in ANY of my weapons, it gets crushed. Mags are cheap, reliability is priceless. Damage to the feed lips or dents in the body just aren't worth messing with. And yes, I have ancient magazines too.

Peregrino:

Well, if they didn't function in any of my weapons, I would chuck them as well. No need trying to bend magazine lips, cutting springs, adding springs, or altering followers to get them to work. That is a lesson in frustration. You would think a magazine is simple by looking at them. I tried making a GI issue .45 magazine feed more reliably one time by bending the lips. Man, what a mess! Do one thing and you upset every part in the entire magazine.

I had one of four initial magazines with my T2K fail to feed the third round every single time it was cycled. The bolt wouldn't pick up the third round properly. First, second, forth, and fifth rounds would feed perfectly every time. Just the third round. I even loaded it with ten shots out of curiosity and low and behold, the same thing with the third round. Called McMillan and at first they wanted to argue but they did replace it with one that works perfectly.

I don't mess with them but I must find out why they are failing before I destroy them.

Gene

Robertson

11-25-2006, 03:26

Hey I've had problems with the same standard magazine a few times, until I became a fan of the black hi-caps that I have now.

I've had two hi-cap magazines for close to 4 years now. Never cleaned them once, just loaded them up with ammo (live/blank) and shoot away. I've used them for weapons qual, Rets, and other types of training using blank ammo. They are pretty dirty and have been well used and still - no malfunctions. I haven't had one jam/misfeed yet. *knock on wood* I'm waiting to see how much longer until they do jam or stop working correctly. I'd have to say that I've fired more than 5,000 rounds through each. The carbon is built up all around the inside of the mag/spring/feed tray.

I'll check my LBE when I get a chance to tell ya'll the brand name.

I'm pretty impressed to be honest.

-Robertson

Tubbs

11-27-2006, 01:28

As a civilian, that should be plenty for anything but bans preventing future purchases or a zombie invasion.

TR

I thought I was the only person on the site preparing for the fact that might be a real possibility, which I belive it is. Of course I get zombies and liberals confused pretty often...

HOLLiS

11-27-2006, 09:56

Hey I've had problems with the same standard magazine a few times, until I became a fan of the black hi-caps that I have now.

On your magazines, are they the H&K steel ones with the black followers? Those are really great Magazines but not cheap.

H.

longtab

11-27-2006, 18:06

I've been torture testing an old 20rd mag of mine that I've fitted with an H&K follower from 'the good' H&K mags. It has survived and flawlessly fed on semi-, rapid-, and full auto in Albuquerque's 115° July heat to Valhalla Training Center's micro-blizzards and everywhere in between. So far so good...

Robertson

11-27-2006, 21:05

On your magazines, are they the H&K steel ones with the black followers? Those are really great Magazines but not cheap.

H.

There isn't any real information on these so I googled the Patent Number and came up with these results:
PAT.NO 4139959

United States Patent 4413437

Abstract: An improved cartridge magazine constructed of high impact nylon resin and in which a spring urged follower pushes cartridges into a rifle into which the casing is inserted. The follower is attached to the spring which prevents fore and aft movement of the follower and the spring is curved to physically contact the bottommost portion of the follower to prevent the follower from pivoting about the spring contact. A removable floor plate is removably attached to the casing by means of a pair of resilient latches. The floor plate is symmetrical and has no preferred orientation, thereby simplifying loading of the cartridges.

Inventor Howard; William J. (P.O. Box 573, Wilson, NC 27893); Harvey; William A. (P.O. Box 3065, Wilson, NC 27893)
Owner/Assignee
Publication Date February 20, 1979
Application Number 796560
Filing Date May 13, 1977
US Classification 42/50
Int'l Classification F41C 025/02
Examiner Jordan; Charles T.

Really these are The Thermold ones look for "Thermold D&D INC WILSON NC" on the left side. "PAT NO. 4139959" is on the bottom

I hope this helps.

Robertson

11-27-2006, 21:16

I did some additional research as I was looking to buy some more of these 30 round mags...and as it turns out they no longer make them because the company went out of business:

Here is the link where you can read about them. Aparently they sold for $25 each at some point prior to the company going out of business:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Thermold+D%26D+M16

Peregrino

11-27-2006, 22:48

I've got one of the Thermold 30/40 rd mags (Patent # 4472900). (Push a detent and the mag bottom extends to hold 10 more rds.) It was given to me back when we were experimenting with "good idea" gadgets. We never purchased more because it didn't solve any pressing need and you couldn't fit three of them in a standard ammo pouch. Personally I never had a problem with it, just never saw the point in spending money on aftermarket mags when I have/could get GI mags "inexpensively". I keep it mostly as a novelty item though it does allow me to keep 30 rds loaded in the mag with the bottom extended to relieve the spring pressure. To use it I just slap up on the bottom of the mag to close it and restore full (actually extra) spring pressure. FWIW - Peregrino

WholeManin2010

12-07-2010, 21:57

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/12/06/surefire-introduces-the-john-holmes-of-rifle-magazines/

Would not have given this a second look if they didn't happen to be made by Surefire. :munchin

DJ Urbanovsky

12-22-2010, 15:58

Magpul is also working on their own version:

http://www.defensereview.com/magpul-files-patent-application-for-quad-stack-magazine-4179-stanag-enhanced-capacity-ar-ar-15-mag/

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2010/12/06/surefire-introduces-the-john-holmes-of-rifle-magazines/

Would not have given this a second look if they didn't happen to be made by Surefire. :munchin

Penn

01-02-2018, 09:44

Considering pressure on the magazine spring, is there a rule on the length of time a loaded magazine should remain loaded or cycled in storage and still GTG. Thx in advance...

Combat Diver

01-02-2018, 12:39

Only time having too many is detrimental is when you have to swim with them. If not, buy when and how many you can afford.

CD

Team Sergeant

01-02-2018, 15:13

Considering pressure on the magazine spring, is there a rule on the length of time a loaded magazine should remain loaded or cycled in storage and still GTG. Thx in advance...

What kills a spring is repeated compressing and uncompressing (so I've been told). I have mags that have been loaded for years....to no ill effect.

Penn

01-02-2018, 20:02

TS, warm regards this New Year, thx on the mag question.

Old Dog New Trick

01-02-2018, 23:12

Concur on the spring issue. I’ve had mags loaded for close to since time began and they still worked. Last time my Benneli Super 90 got fired no problem after having seven shells stuffed in the tube for well since it was invented.

As far as detachable mags go I think I have all could ever need but maybe I’ll buy ten more if the price is right. :D