View Full Version : Troops With Debt Seen as Security Risks, Barred From Overseas Duty
BMT (RIP)
10-20-2006, 03:55
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222500,00.html
I wonder why I'm not surprised.
:munchin
BMT
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 11:11
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,222500,00.html
I wonder why I'm not surprised.
:munchin
BMT
Pay day lenders seem to be the worst !! I've heard that they are charging as much as 120% on money loaned forward of their pay day checks. How does one get that paid down exactly without getting their credit score hacked down to a 300 ???
When I was active duty I admit to hokking the TV a couple of times just to have enough drinking money for the weekends, but I only made that mistake a couple of times. I still have that television today in my sons rooms :eek: It still works and remote still works. That was from 1985 :eek:
What would the top brass expect now ?? For the senior NCO"s to start being "DEPT GATE KEEPERS" for all the enlisted folk. Seems they have enough on their plate without getting into the mess of over seeing their subordinate soldiers financial lives.
The Reaper
10-20-2006, 11:43
Pay day lenders seem to be the worst !! I've heard that they are charging as much as 120% on money loaned forward of their pay day checks. How does one get that paid down exactly without getting their credit score hacked down to a 300 ???
When I was active duty I admit to hokking the TV a couple of times just to have enough drinking money for the weekends, but I only made that mistake a couple of times. I still have that television today in my sons rooms :eek: It still works and remote still works. That was from 1985 :eek:
What would the top brass expect now ?? For the senior NCO"s to start being "DEPT GATE KEEPERS" for all the enlisted folk. Seems they have enough on their plate without getting into the mess of over seeing their subordinate soldiers financial lives.
Not quite.
The payday check to check lenders and title lenders just off Ft Bragg were charging in excess of 300%. IIRC, the cap was 330% per year.
I remember that the State Legislature was working to cut that, but was being fought by a lobbying group with plenty of (shock!:eek: ) money.
These people are leeches and need to be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.
TR
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 12:27
Not quite.
The payday check to check lenders and title lenders just off Ft Bragg were charging in excess of 300%. IIRC, the cap was 330% per year.
I remember that the State Legislature was working to cut that, but was being fought by a lobbying group with plenty of (shock!:eek: ) money.
These people are leeches and need to be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.
TR
300% ?? Good God !! How do these "Shock Money" people sleep at night ?:confused:
The inventor of the payday loan, Muhammed Yumus, was awarded the Nobel Prize. Whatever happened to that award?
http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=9512
The Reaper
10-20-2006, 12:41
300% ?? Good God !! How do these "Shock Money" people sleep at night ?:confused:
Apparently in a mansion, with silk sheets on a very expensive mattress, after a dinner prepared by their chef with the approporiate French wine, and a bath drawn by the butler.
The inventor of the payday loan, Muhammed Yumus, was awarded the Nobel Prize. Whatever happened to that award?
http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=9512
Looks to me like he could have made more of an impact by introducting birth control.
TR
All the above being said...and IMHO correct, some of the responsibility falls on the soldiers chain of command. TL, SL, PSG, PL, 1SG, XO and CO. At some level the CoC needs to give blocks on finacial fitness. We all know that many of these young soldiers are earning "decent" ( :() money for the first time and have no concept how credit works or how to manage a check book. Leaders on major installations need to warn these young soldiers that these money grubbing near criminals are out there and ensure soldiers stay clear. Now that it is a readiness indicator it is incumbant to have a policy in place to thwart these sharks and educate soldiers.
All the above being said...and IMHO correct, some of the responsibility falls on the soldiers chain of command. TL, SL, PSG, PL, 1SG, XO and CO. At some level the CoC needs to give blocks on finacial fitness. We all know that many of these young soldiers are earning "decent" ( :() money for the first time and have no concept how credit works or how to manage a check book. Leaders on major installations need to warn these young soldiers that these money grubbing near criminals are out there and ensure soldiers stay clear. Now that it is a readiness indicator it is incumbant to have a policy in place to thwart these sharks and educate soldiers.
That's happening now, at least some places. I know a CSM who spends an inordinate amount of time educating his men about payday loan sharks and motorcycles -- the bane of his existence. He has as much success with one as the other -- namely, none.
The Reaper
10-20-2006, 15:12
That's happening now, at least some places. I know a CSM who spends an inordinate amount of time educating his men about payday loan sharks and motorcycles -- the bane of his existence. He has as much success with one as the other -- namely, none.
Nothing about mustaches, alcohol, and consorting with loose women?
TR
Now imagine this issue with a large portion of Draftees.
I wait now only for the Democrats to blame the President and say SECDEF Rumsfeld should go. Then they will follow up with a scheme to turn Troops into victims for their own gain. Didn't we just go through this a few years ago with Troops on WIC subsities.
We can teach classes until we are blue in the face...young and "desperate" people will make stupid decisions.
:boohoo
Monsoon65
10-20-2006, 15:41
Nothing about mustaches, alcohol, and consorting with loose women?
TR
The kids in my section are pretty good. I don't have to worry about mustaches at all. They are always in trouble with alcohol and loose women, tho! And the only debt they have is their college loans!
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 17:16
Nothing about mustaches, alcohol, and consorting with loose women?
TR
What ? you mean there were "LOOSE" women around the base ? I missed that part of the experience :lifter
aricbcool
10-20-2006, 17:17
They are always in trouble with alcohol and loose women, tho!
Where's the trouble? The way my Dad used to talk about his cruises* in the 60s, alcohol and loose women were never a problem. ;)
--Aric
*Meaning Navy cruises. He served with the 7th Fleet "Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club". Thanks Dad.
Nothing about mustaches, alcohol, and consorting with loose women?
TR
LOL
Goggles Pizano
10-20-2006, 17:40
Nothing about mustaches, alcohol, and consorting with loose women?
TR
A right of passage back in the day Sir as you know. I agree with Five-0 that the COC should school the kids. Hell if my parents had not shown me the way when I graduated high school I would have the same attitude my ex wife had about a checkbook (I have checks therefore I have money :eek: ).
We (the US Army) write a new regulation, or just use an existing one to say "CHECK CASHING / TITLE LOAN PLACES ARE OFF LIMITS!" Then we could just sick CID on them when Joe's screw up and go there. Kinda like the old school tatoo ban of years ago. IMHO it is just a leagl form of loan sharking. That along with the numbers racket (Lotto), and extorsion / protection payments (TAXES) make most local governments look like a certian other organization with the initials M.O.B. But that is just my .02, have a good 'un
The Reaper
10-20-2006, 18:14
If COs and 1SGs still had to approve marriages, there would be a lot less indebtedness among the troops.
That is probably the largest single cause of indebtedness. Marrying the wrong person, or at the wrong time, or for the wrong reasons.
TR
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 19:46
If COs and 1SGs still had to approve marriages, there would be a lot less indebtedness among the troops.
That is probably the largest single cause of indebtedness. Marrying the wrong person, or at the wrong time, or for the wrong reasons.
TR
Ain't there a Dr. Phil book about that ?? Maybe required reading for new recruits.
AmericanPride
10-20-2006, 22:16
That is probably the largest single cause of indebtedness. Marrying the wrong person, or at the wrong time, or for the wrong reasons.
TR
But sir we love each other, it was the best weekend of our lives. She said she would stop dancing at that club while we're gone. So can I go get her a power of attorney at lunch?
:D
The Reaper
10-20-2006, 22:20
But sir we love each other, it was the best weekend of our lives. She said she would stop dancing at that club while we're gone. So can I go get her a power of attorney at lunch?
:D
Negative, you are to move into the barracks immediately and commence extra duty and restriction. See Top for specific instructions, and go to Battalion Med for some Penicillin.
Your fiance is being put on the list of people banned from post.
That will be all.
Move out, and draw fire, Stud.
TR
Marrying ...for the wrong reasons.the right reasons being...?:munchin
aricbcool
10-20-2006, 22:33
the right reasons being...?:munchin
A very large dowry?
--Aric
Great one more station at SRP. Wonder if they will give you all three credit reporting agencies scores.
frostfire
10-21-2006, 01:30
the right reasons being...?:munchin
Just saw that myself over at Foxnews.
I have to agree, I see way too many junior soldiers marrying for all of the wrong reasons, sex, family housing, lust, FSA, loneliness, fear, immaturity, etc.
Nothing at all wrong with trying to counsel them a bit before they take a very big step.
I saw middle aged women in my last job with their third military husband in four years, and with kids from each! Very scary.
Makes me wish for the good old days when the commander had to approve the marriage request.
TR
ok, this has been on my mind for quite some time. The list above seems what folks generally get married for. So then, would you care elaborate those right reasons and share some of your collective wisdom, Reaper Sir?
inquiring minds need to know...
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-21-2006, 05:49
You know I think that while there are a bunch of folks out there that will make a buck off of any service member they can, the whole climate of the Army has changed. I can remember as a young company commander in the early 60s giving all those Command's Calls and counselling sessions about troops not letting their Johnson out for air at the wrong time and place, I just don't recall the magnitude of the problems I see today. Now these are just observations from a person who probably has nothing much of value to add to today's events, but it just seems that the Army in general has become a job and has lost for many the calling of a profession. I think Reaper has hit a large part of the problem-we sure as hell had more authority over the "civilian pursuits" of our soldiers back in the day. There was a lot of common sense in the old joke about, "If the Army wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one". That mindset actually meant that the Army was going to give you everything you needed to do your job-which included things like medical care, housing, and a whole variety of "old Army" activities and functions that brought the Army community together both socially and professionally. Folks actually felt that they belonged to something, but today kids jump in cars that cost more than my first house, tool miles away from the "base" to their safe haven of home, are totally disassociated from their "day job", and do their "own thing", without much focus or regard for what their actual 24/7 obligations really are. Now, before I have to start dodging heat seeking rockets, there is nothing wrong with that as long as you do not loose your perspective and are mature enough to handle your primary obligation which is your military "commitment". But I don't see that anymore. I have watched the Army shoot itself in the foot over the years by trying to "provide" those "benefits" and "caring for its own", but because they have reduced the unit command team's authority in actually setting some limits and have granting by Army edict a level of freedom of action for young soldiers, and officers BTW, their various programs and ability to provide for the force has become overwhelmed. Unit commander's did not have to be so damn politically correct and while I managed to get counselled for things like telling a kid that announced he was going to go AWOL that he stop by the messhall (we did not have dinning facilities then) and pick up 30 days worth of rations so I could drop his sorry butt from the rolls, we were able to nip a lot of this in the bud before it got out of control. Now, with the kinder and gentler drill sgts, I would imagine the ability to "de-civilianize" the recruit from his mixed cultural baggage has gotten even worse.
Jack Moroney: Recalling one incident "in the good old days" where a troop came up sort in his ability to manage his pay. I gave him a few bucks so he could get his fatiques squared away for guard mount and forgot all about it because it never happened again.
Fifteen years later I ran into him again when I took over as the S3 of 1-23rd Infantry in Korea-he was my operations sgt:D
Had a friend of mine in the Army, SSGT actually, that got into this payday loan cycle a few years ago. Got so bad he was going to other institutions to get money to pay the previous "loan" and then was indebted to the new one. Horrible cycle of wash, rinse, repeat...no cash flow and unable to pay his bills. What a nightmare. I kept telling him to stay away from those thieves... Ultimately he deployed and was able to get squared away.
Speaking of wrong reasons to get married, he had contemplated marriage for convenience so he could get extra money for housing...I am no counselor but I managed to talk him out of that one.
Can't count how many young men I've written over the years that have had problems due to their seemingly poor choice in spouse...I will never forget one young Marine who told me he heard from a friend/neighbor that his new wife cleaned out everything in his house and also found out she emptied the bank account while he was on the battlefield. Or then there's the MOTHER of a Soldier who was in charge of his bank account while he was deployed who kept "borrowing" money. He came home to almost nothing. I know these are not isolated incidents and these kinds of stories just infuriate the hell out of me.
A soldier in my former sister BN was deployed to Iraq for the second time... this second time, he received a legal notice saying he was now legally separated. This was two years ago.
He has yet to hear from his now estranged wife who somehow managed to legally skip town.. oh yeah.. and he has no idea where their young son is. And there was nothing he could do.
Making a poor choice in spouses seems almost a specialty in military types. It's almost like we have this unsatiable need for some consistency in our lives, so we just go out and get married to solve that.
BMT (RIP)
10-21-2006, 09:27
The DO GOODER'S and Shrinks can't understand why the young soldier went upside her head with a 2x4 or off the bitch.
BMT
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-21-2006, 10:09
Making a poor choice in spouses seems almost a specialty in military types..
Well that might be, however the track record doesn't seem so great out there in the civilian world either. What was the latest statistic, 50% get divorced? I think the worst thing about all of this is watching some young troop go down the drain in his career trying to cope with this upheaval in his personal life. It was also never much fun being in the first line of fire as a commander or team leader when the Mrs came storming through the office door laying all this at your feet. This is just one of the things for which you are never, or were never, prepared to deal as a unit commander. Unit problems, personal problems of various nature, and even esoteric stuff like folks suddenly discovering religion no problem-but marriage and dependent problems are in a category all by themselves. Beyond all the normal baggage associated with this, there can be security issues that would dwarf those that the military is concerned about of a kid in debt in the SOF community. Those were the ones I really hated dealing with because the options for resolution were never good as it usually resulted in not only attempting to resolve the issue but a death knell to what was a promising career of a SF soldier. Those were the times when the weight of command crushed you like plastic bottle in the dive chamber.
The DO GOODER'S and Shrinks can't understand why the young soldier went upside her head with a 2x4 or off the bitch.
BMTI know of more than a few guys that came back home to NOTHING!!!!!
I know one, that owned the house that his girlfriend moved in while he was away, he paided the mortgage, electricity, water, sewer, etc.
They got in an argument over how much money she was spending, she calls the cops; HE had to leave his OWN house for seven days...LMMFAO!
Stay safe.
Well that might be, however the track record doesn't seem so great out there in the civilian world either. What was the latest statistic, 50% get divorced? I think the worst thing about all of this is watching some young troop go down the drain in his career trying to cope with this upheaval in his personal life. It was also never much fun being in the first line of fire as a commander or team leader when the Mrs came storming through the office door laying all this at your feet. This is just one of the things for which you are never, or were never, prepared to deal as a unit commander. Unit problems, personal problems of various nature, and even esoteric stuff like folks suddenly discovering religion no problem-but marriage and dependent problems are in a category all by themselves. Beyond all the normal baggage associated with this, there can be security issues that would dwarf those that the military is concerned about of a kid in debt in the SOF community. Those were the ones I really hated dealing with because the options for resolution were never good as it usually resulted in not only attempting to resolve the issue but a death knell to what was a promising career of a SF soldier. Those were the times when the weight of command crushed you like plastic bottle in the dive chamber.
I do know a gentleman or two in your community, Sir, who put their CoCs in that position. Wonderful women, don't get me wrong. But it seemed a rough time for all involved.
I can only imagine how that added baggage makes life infinitely more difficult for you and your fellow O's, Sir.
airbornediver
11-02-2006, 09:12
Negative, you are to move into the barracks immediately and commence extra duty and restriction. See Top for specific instructions, and go to Battalion Med for some Penicillin.
Your fiance is being put on the list of people banned from post.
That will be all.
Move out, and draw fire, Stud.
TR
now if I had advice like that as 18 y/o private in korea that would have been great. I did get rid of her before I left for the states after my 2nd year there.
and as far as the payday loan thing and making sure soldiers are more financially smart, I think its a good thing to have the CoC overwatchin them. I know if I would have had it, it definately would have made things easier in the long run. Young stupid kid first time making real money, I damn near lost my fool mind haha.
ahh but the mistakes made are taken care of, and the lessons learned the hard way are the ones never forgotten.