View Full Version : Methamphetamine
Bill Harsey
10-18-2006, 13:48
There is a question in here and I've thought of the possible relevancy to you guys and gals who travel the world before posting this.
This last spring the head of our DEA stated that the global use of methamphetamine users is exceeding the combined numbers of cocaine and heroine users.
Bringing this closer to home and getting to the question:
I know a guy locally who as a world class weight lifter and coach works with young people in detention as a physical fitness trainer. He voiced his concern about meth use because there are some kids, former meth users, he can't get to understand even the simplest things and this is starting to deeply concern him.
He asked me if the damage done by meth use is something that can be healed or if once the brain is fried, it's always fried.
If (heavy) meth users stop using, does the brain recover?
x SF med
10-18-2006, 14:52
Bill-
The organic changes to the brain caused by prolonged (or just excessive single dose) drug use, especially alkaloids, opiates and lysergines is generally not considered reversible - once brain cells are dead, they're gone. The brain can be repathed through intensive training/therapy - but the actual sections of the brain that are damaged will always be damaged.
Meth is especially evil in this respect due to the compounding effect of the chemicals used in manufacture, and the way meth affects the total nervous system. As a short non-scientific answer, meth attacks the higher thought centers and the 'control' centers (both voluntary and autonomic) of the brain.
Another effect of meth is the onset of psychosis in long term use, including bipolar disorders, straight depression, and hallucinatory/ paranoid disorders.
It's bad shit. Since these kids were (I suppose) heavy users at a young age, the effect is devastating, the brain may have ceased to develop, and there are probably mental and emotional components to the developmental retardation on top of the stated cognative issues.
Had Meth been the big thing in the 60's you'd have the term "meth casualties" instead of "acid casualties".
If I seem a bit in tune with this, it's because my older brother did this to himself - in his 20s, as a Marine (prior to drug testing) wit ha combination of LSD, pot, PCP, alcohol and the corrosion control chemicals he was exposed to in his job - my bet is the 10 hits of acid, 2 cases of beer and the dusted joints (according to him, nearly every night) did a great majority of the damage he's still trying to overcome decades later.
Your friend may be able to help one or two of these kids, the lightest of the former users, but even that is going to be an uphill battle.
God bless him for his efforts, but from experience I know how frustrating it is to see all that potential gone to waste.
CPTAUSRET
10-18-2006, 15:49
Bill:
Nancy (Andreasen) would tell you that Meth usage can cause Schizophrenia! And that there definitely are examples of irreversible brain damage!
Bill Harsey
10-18-2006, 20:39
x_sf_med and CPTAUSRET,
Thanks. Our man will see this.
Meth is evil incarnate.
Dealers and cooks should be shot, but that's just my opinion.
Ken Brock
10-19-2006, 04:37
The people that I have seen that get addicted to meth generally don't kick the habit
They also don't last as long as the ones addicted to crack or some other drugs.
Meth users and paint huffers seem to have a lifespan of about 5 years once they get started
Team Sergeant
10-19-2006, 09:12
There is a question in here and I've thought of the possible relevancy to you guys and gals who travel the world before posting this.
Bill,
There was an indept one hour special just last night concerning Meth use in the US (I watched the whole episode). I'm sure it will be on again. Meth use started in the Pacific NW and in your state there are 10's of thousands of users. Below is a link for the show and well worth reading.
Side note, the US LEO's have put a huge dent in the US meth labs, but guess who has stepped up to the plate to deliver meth to the US market? Yup, our illegal mexican friends south of the border.....
TS
World's Most Dangerous Drug
Wednesday October 18 8P et/pt
Methamphetamine has caused a global drug epidemic, with more users than cocaine and heroin combined. Easy to obtain and relatively inexpensive, it is more powerful than alcohol, heroin or cocaine, and is considered one of the hardest addictions to quit. Check out NGC correspondent Lisa Ling's Blog on the world’s most dangerous drug!
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/channel/blog/2006/10/explorer_drug.html
mumbleypeg
10-19-2006, 11:14
Bill, The following are excerpts from a UC Davis study.
http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/15/3/317#ABS
"In methamphetamine-naïve humans, low doses produce a sense of heightened alertness, attentiveness, and energy. Higher dose intoxication produces a sense of well-being, euphoria, and enhanced self-esteem that can approach hypomania and grandiosity. Initially, sexual activity and pleasure may be increased, although longer use is associated with impaired sexual functioning. Appetite is suppressed. Adverse effects include restlessness, insomnia, bruxism, and excessive weight loss. Suspiciousness may occur and can develop into a full paranoid psychosis that is indistinguishable from acute paranoid schizophrenia. The psychosis may extend beyond the period of acute intoxication, and some experts believe that it may recur or become chronic, despite abstinence from drug use.10–12 A preoccupation with minutiae and details can arise, leading to compulsive repetitious behaviors. Skin picking is not uncommon and is, at times, accompanied by tactile hallucinations and delusions of parasitosis. Abrupt cessation of long-term use produces withdrawal, which can last for days and may be accompanied by dysphoria, irritability, and agitation.
"...recent studies have shown that long-term methamphetamine use is associated with impaired performance on a number of cognitive tasks.68–71 Volkow et al.71 tested a group of methamphetamine-dependent subjects and found that they exhibited performance deficits in both verbal memory and motor function. Simon et al.70 observed that the methamphetamine users in their study did not differ from controls on global Intelligence Quotient (IQ) measures, though they did perform significantly worse on tests of memory recall. The methamphetamine group in this same study had difficulty with tests that measured manipulation of information (i.e., Digit Span Task and Trail Making Part B), but had no problems on tasks that measured psychomotor speed separately (i.e., Trail Making Part A). The methamphetamine group also displayed deficits in abstract reasoning and task shifting strategies. In their study, Ornstein et al.72 reported that methamphetamine-dependent subjects displayed specific deficits in shifting categories on a computerized task shifting experiment when compared with chronic heroin users and nonsubstance using control subjects."
..."Clinically, methamphetamine-dependent individuals appear distractible and exhibit difficulties in sustaining attention."....
CPTAUSRET
10-20-2006, 12:38
"Volkow et al.71 tested "
I presume that is Nora Volkow, if so she is a friend.
Interesting factoid, she is Trotsky's Grand daughter.
CPTAUSRET
10-20-2006, 12:45
Bill:
You might find something of interest on this page! There is a link to Methamphetamine Abuse.
http://www.nida.nih.gov/about/welcome/Volkowpage.html
Meth is evil incarnate.
Dealers and cooks should be shot, but that's just my opinion.
Certainly a problem back there (NZ) from what I've seen. A shame that it has become so popular there in such a short time.
My dealings with the "Meth" crowd has been sad to say the least. The ones that continue to use and/or cook seem to be simply lost. They are, for the most part, non-productive people and cannot possibly hold a job that entails any degree of concentration. The ones that we use to get that were "tweaking" for more than 14 days are extremely violent and adgitated. When they come down off of the stuff and you try and talk to them, you feel like you are talking to a juvenile. My worst fights have been with people who are on Meth and they are many times more violent than PCP crowd. "Cooker's" are simply dead men walking. They just don't know it yet. The above is just for those who constantly use and/or cook only. Just my .02
Certainly a problem back there (NZ) from what I've seen. A shame that it has become so popular there in such a short time.
In the last 6 or 7 years it's become big. Due ethnic Chinese organised crime mostly it seems and then home cooked stuff with the gangs.
The Police Association warned about it 10 or 15 years ago, too.
CoLawman
10-26-2006, 20:10
Bill, as you know, and as TS has stated the use of meth is epidemic and it is expanding at a rapid rate. You might recall that I became a parent again at the young age of 48 as a direct result of the twins mother being unable to kick the addiction. Not a complaint, it was a blessing, and hopefully a blessing for the twins.
Meth use is pervasive in all corners including Greeley, Colorado. You may have noticed the press conference regarding our taking down an international meth ring involving Mexican Cartels, and Gangs.
http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20061026/NEWS/110260165
Interesting fact is the direct connection to Illegal Mexican Aliens.
My personal opinion is that we can only impact the importation of methampetamine by strict enforcement of immigration laws. TS is absolutely correct, the American meth labs have been affected by the laws making it more difficult to obtain the precursors. But this created a market for Mexican meth which is produced in superlabs with a 97% purity, commonly called ICE. That type of purity and the decrease in cost to the consumer due to Walmart type monopoly of the market also contributed to the demise of American home labs.
DEA has conducted studies that indicate only 3% of meth users are successful in kicking the habit. Further DEA studies also indicate that 1 out of 10 people using this ICE will be instantly (and for the most part forever) addicted.
Ancillary considerations are the exposure of the children to the second hand smoke. No studies have been conducted to date.........but I will remain optimistic about my kids chances.
Meth has been directly linked to the increase in violence and homicide rate. Our last 10 gang homicides involved meth.
Meth use occurs in all segments of society, regardless of socioeconomic status.
Some of you have done extensive research on meth use and effect, or have personal knowledge of it's menace to our nation. Would you agree with my ranking of the threats to our nation:
1. Methamphetamine.
2. Illegal Immigration.
3. Islamo Fascists.
Rant off!
Bill Harsey
10-26-2006, 20:24
CoLawman, Thanks and your right on all points.
Oregon was a founder of and remaining leader in the industry of "entrepreneurial pharmacalogy".
brianb0806
11-22-2006, 17:57
Here is a good link for anyone working with kids. I would imagine this to be especially effective with girls, since they are generally more concerned with their appearance. Our only hope is to educate our people because we are never going to stop it at the border. Never!
http://www.facesofmeth.us/
I at first hand am a factor to this and reaped the end result having me getting out of the Army. If I would change back time. I would have not taken drugs such as meth. And continue service. Now I have to depend on pills daily even though I have stabilized, I am now constantly living my everyday life and trying to cope with my disabilities. Wish I could still be in the service but my over thinking and over analyzing got me lost in my own reality. Well said SF MED.
Bill-
The organic changes to the brain caused by prolonged (or just excessive single dose) drug use, especially alkaloids, opiates and lysergines is generally not considered reversible - once brain cells are dead, they're gone. The brain can be repathed through intensive training/therapy - but the actual sections of the brain that are damaged will always be damaged.
Meth is especially evil in this respect due to the compounding effect of the chemicals used in manufacture, and the way meth affects the total nervous system. As a short non-scientific answer, meth attacks the higher thought centers and the 'control' centers (both voluntary and autonomic) of the brain.
Another effect of meth is the onset of psychosis in long term use, including bipolar disorders, straight depression, and hallucinatory/ paranoid disorders.
It's bad shit. Since these kids were (I suppose) heavy users at a young age, the effect is devastating, the brain may have ceased to develop, and there are probably mental and emotional components to the developmental retardation on top of the stated cognative issues.
Had Meth been the big thing in the 60's you'd have the term "meth casualties" instead of "acid casualties".
If I seem a bit in tune with this, it's because my older brother did this to himself - in his 20s, as a Marine (prior to drug testing) wit ha combination of LSD, pot, PCP, alcohol and the corrosion control chemicals he was exposed to in his job - my bet is the 10 hits of acid, 2 cases of beer and the dusted joints (according to him, nearly every night) did a great majority of the damage he's still trying to overcome decades later.
Your friend may be able to help one or two of these kids, the lightest of the former users, but even that is going to be an uphill battle.
God bless him for his efforts, but from experience I know how frustrating it is to see all that potential gone to waste.
NurseTim
12-24-2013, 21:34
The people that I have seen that get addicted to meth generally don't kick the habit
They also don't last as long as the ones addicted to crack or some other drugs.
Meth users and paint huffers seem to have a lifespan of about 5 years once they get started
So the problem is self limiting.
Team Sergeant
12-25-2013, 12:47
Since this was brought up again (holy necropost!) while I was in culinary college I sat next to another student that looked to be in his mid to late forties.
His teeth were completely destroyed and his hair was gray. After talking to him he said he was a recovering meth addict and used over ten years and that he was only 26 years old........ I'm a good judge of age and I would have bet my last dollar he was mid to late forties..... he will never recover from the meth use.
My brothers one younger, one older both destroyed their lives with drugs. 20 years ago when my older brother was 40 I went to go see him, I had not seen him in a long time and at first glance I wondered who this little old man was who was shuffling out of his house to greet me. He could have passed for 70. He could not understand how he could be so used up as he had given up the drugs and booze 5 years earlier. My younger brother age 56 lives with my mother he has totally destroyed his health and is medically a ward of the Federal Govt. He is morally bankrupt and cannot begin to grasp how I wish to never have any contact with him again. I have seen the first hand effect of drug abuse and as many of you know it is not a pretty sight.
craigepo
12-26-2013, 05:58
Among my duties, I am also the juvenile judge for three counties. We recently took three kids from the parents. Mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, all lived in a mobile home. Mom and dad we're cooking meth in the kids' bedroom. We took custody of the kids, ages 5,4,2 1/2, and newborn. First we had to get the kids on nebulizers for their breathing problems. Next had to get them on medication for the meth sores that were all over their skin, from being around the cooking fumes. Next, every time the parents got home, they put the kids in car seats in the house so they wouldn't have to deal wit them. As they always faced the 2 1/2 year old the same direction and jammed a bottle in its mouth, it now has a huge flat spot on its head, the doctors aren't sure if it's fixable or not.
When the parents finally sobered up in jail, they had no clue what had happened or what was going on with their kids.
Meth is one of the most evil substances on the planet.
swatsurgeon
12-26-2013, 08:29
Meth is terrible, krokadil is worse.
ss
GratefulCitizen
12-28-2013, 21:45
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/12/alleged_masturbating_man_in_sa.html
Tweakers are the worst.
Dealt with several over the years working security in a nightclub.
Had one who went all "Tasmanian devil", brawling with random patrons.
He caught one of our staff with a swing as he was being hauled out the door.
That staff member had enough of the BS, picked him up, threw him head first into the asphalt, and finished with a few shots to the jaw.
Guy was laying there unconscious for about a minute (I checked to make sure he wasn't dead) and then, with no warning, pops up off the ground and goes back into Tasmanian devil mode as if nothing had happened.
Subduing him was a nightmare, and he kept fighting with whatever limb wasn't controlled.
Police got there (they knew him on a first name basis) and questioned whether the level of force was justified.
He was compliant at that point, and the police cuffed him without incident.
Then, after being cuffed, he started fighting with them (IIRC, even after they had him on the ground, cuffed, he bit one of them on the ankle).
Saw the same tweaker in the news again the next year.
There were accusations of police brutality in subduing him during an arrest.
Had another tweaker go nuts when we asked him and his girlfriend to cover there exposed body parts.
Guy was 140 lbs soaking wet, and it took 5 staff members to subdue him.
One of our staff, a very strong 320lb defensive lineman, was dropping full-force elbows on the back of the tweaker's neck just to gain control of the guy's right arm.
We were happy just to get him out the back fire exit and close the door.
The guy sprinted around to the front door looking like he was ready for more.
For whatever reason, he opted out of round two, but he didn't look like he even noticed the blows he took.
Meth is scary stuff.
mojaveman
12-28-2013, 23:15
If I got my history right methamphetamine was originally developed by the Third Reich to give to their soldiers when they became fatigued in battle. Many years later in the late 60's it became popular with California biker gangs who somehow found the chemical makeup and began producing it illegally to use and sell. Agree that it's terrible stuff and hope anyone who's addicted can overcome it. We had to fire a few of our tow drivers at work because they were using it to stay awake at night. I always knew when they were doing that because by noon we could never get them to wake up.