View Full Version : Best Course You Have Attended?
Okay, everybody knows about all the HSLD insertion and shooting schools, plus all the other "ninja skills" schools. What was the best, or favorite, MOS related school you ever attended? Either MIL or CIV.
x/S
BMT (RIP)
10-02-2006, 09:51
Ops& Intel SFTG '64-'65
BMT
As an Engineering type I loved Sapper School (pre-tab days, you know…when it was hard). I also got to attend a target analysis course that was awesome, but it took some brain power to complete. But the best time ever at a military school – MFF (HALO). First the course is a blast all by itself, but Lake Havasue during Spring Break…you got to be kidding me that I got paid for that trip!
Roguish Lawyer
10-02-2006, 11:34
Lake Havasu during Spring Break…you got to be kidding me that I got paid for that trip!
I've been there, and you're right!
incommin
10-02-2006, 13:04
Best in what way? Fun? Most educational? Most useful?
Jim
Matta mile
10-02-2006, 16:17
Fun wise without a doubt was the coveted "Inland Waterways" training in Alaska. Went there with the team during Alaskan summer. Lots of time in a motor boat on beautiful rivers. Camping and fishing in some of the most georgeous wilderness I have ever seen. Not your typical SF training.
Learning wise, SFQC pilot course with then Maj Robert Howard....unbelieveably demanding from every angle.
MM
uboat509
10-02-2006, 18:28
The Advanced Land Navigation Course was the most professionally run and most physically demanding course. 18F was the one that I learned the most in that I still use. I would kill a close relative to get one of the courses they run out at range 37 but it just doesn't seem to be in my future.
SFC W
Ambush Master
10-02-2006, 19:20
One-Zero School at CLT RVN!!
We actually had about 5 KIAs (Students & Instructor)!!
NousDefionsDoc
10-02-2006, 19:53
Longrange1947's Special Operations Target Interdiction Course for Wayward Medics - ROP, Summer, 1989.
I always considered certification good training as well. Enjoyed every one of them.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-02-2006, 19:57
Everyday I spent with SF troops just doing our thing was always the best day of learning/training/development/and feedback. I know I have never found it anywhere else, in any environment.
NousDefionsDoc
10-02-2006, 20:01
Everyday I spent with SF troops just doing our thing was always the best day of learning/training/development/and feedback. I know I have never found it anywhere else, in any environment.
Well said Sir.
I have never found it anywhere else, in any environment.
Amen to that!!!!
Firebeef
10-03-2006, 04:10
[QUOTE I know I have never found it anywhere else, in any environment.[/QUOTE]
Without a doubt. Been to some cool schools as a Fireman, but none compare.
FLTC/E (Foreign Language Training Course/Europe) in Garmisch-Partenkirchen was pretty hard to beat in both language immersion and well... being in GAP, let yer imagination run wild ......:D
incommin
10-03-2006, 05:14
Most demanding course: Med lab- SFTG 1966-1967
Most useful: One-zero School - RVN 1968
Most fun: 11B and 11C cross training 10th SFG 1969 and French Commando Course- 7th French Commando School Trier 1976
Most used: Crime Scene Reconstruction, Latent print development, and Latent print ID courses.
Jim
sharkmanII
10-03-2006, 05:38
Given 5th groups geographical A/O, and the countries surrounding the area, I was chosen as a young hard charging medic to attend.... SF Mule packing school. I kid you not good sirs! It was a rough 3 week course, learning everything from how to shoe the animals to properly packing them for a mountainous long haul to swimming but not drowning the animals while bearing their loads. The 2 weeks of classroom and hands on practical exercises was actually demanding, on both student and animals, but then came the final testing out trip. We spent a week in eastern TN in the mountains packing a teams full compliment of gear and other assorted supplies. We worked with every kind of pack animal and every situation the instructors could throw at us and man that was a fantastic school. Never got the oppurtunity to utilize the skill set, but it was fun and informative. :lifter
Most useful. SOTIC. Already attended a few Sniper Schools before this so I was able to relax and build on my skills.
Hardest. SOT. Pistol was one of my weak points so I struggled thru this one.
Most Fun. All of them pretty much. Can’t beat the antics of twenty or more SF Guys together in the same school.
x SF med
10-03-2006, 09:16
Hardest and most useful - SF Medical Sergeant's Reclassification Course.
Most fun - SF Light Weapons PHII (lots of rounds downrange back then)
The two that put the fear of God into me - SADM and NBC
The one that 'hurt' the most - Pre Scuba - when one of my sinuses was barometrically evacuated, and I was DQd from attempting SCUBA for 2 years.
Soft Target
10-03-2006, 10:10
I failed MAPTOE (Management Practices in TOE Units) in early 1972 because I couldn't place the trash cans and telephones properly; or was it because I had two wisdom teeth pulled on the last day of class and started the Basic Airborne Course the next day? OK, just kidding, Colonel (about the first part, not about the teeth and jump school, that was true and I did fail it for not turning in my workplace diagram, it was almost Happy Hour at Willie's).
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-03-2006, 14:09
[QUOTE=Soft Target]MAPTOE QUOTE]
Some GS18 probably made SES rank after developing this rediculous attempt to turn the military into a corporate headquarters. As I recall this had more to do with eyewash and process than performance and results and had about as much application and value in the field as a pair of spit-shinned boots.
BMT (RIP)
10-04-2006, 05:18
Can’t beat the antics of twenty or more SF Guys together in the same school.
Sound's like my class at the 'Bird during intel school. We ask a Marine O-4 what class he liked to work with best. Naturally we came out on top. He resaon was " you better know you subject or be prepared toget shot off the platform.".
BMT
optactical
10-04-2006, 07:03
Hardest most demanding course ever: 25th ID RIP 1997 (now shut down)
Longest, worst, gut check: Ranger (5-97)
Shortest, worst , gut check: June SFAS 1998 (black flag every day)
Easiest: Sadly it was Airborne
Worst bending of standards: IMLC
Biggest waste of time: ANCOC
Most fun, and best course: SFARTAETC
Most relaxed: SOTIC
Most professional cadre (hard choice): SERE
Most arduous: DLI
Coolest shit I've done in a mil school: Door checks over Thailand, JM
and of course, let's not forget the hardest 10 days in the Army: Air Assault (NOT!!!)
incommin
10-04-2006, 08:57
Most entertaining class/course- Sergeants Major Academy....I still miss the Coyote Lounge.
Jim
Fun wise without a doubt was the coveted "Inland Waterways" training in Alaska. Went there with the team during Alaskan summer. Lots of time in a motor boat on beautiful rivers. Camping and fishing in some of the most georgeous wilderness I have ever seen. Not your typical SF training.
Ditto - Summer of 1982. Things to remember - stuck my head out of the tent around 0300 (daylight) and a moose was chomping away in the creek about 30 feet from me - came out of a bar at midnight and darn near had a heart attack, the sun should not be up when you come out - and last the TMP bus got a flat and the driver didn't have the key to the lock holding the spare. I showed him how fast a Swiss Army knife saw goes through a brass lock.
Pete
Can jump a boat over trees with the best of them.
EX-Gold Falcon
10-05-2006, 18:11
For those of us who have not had the opportunity to attend nearly as many schools as SOF, can we post our favorite training mission?
Travis
P.S. It was even SOF lead!!! I swear!
The Reaper
10-05-2006, 18:34
It seems to me that since this is the SF Forum and the question was about schools, it would be best if QPs responded and we discuss schools.
Feel free to start a separate thread in another forum to discuss your "favorite training mission".
TR
Favorite school (tie)- SFARTAETC/USASOC mountaineering course.
Least favorite- Jumpmaster
School where I most wanted to put a bullet in my head-AIMC
Gentlemen:
I appreciate all your answers but this thread seems to have morphed in to something other than my intention. I initialled posted this question in the 18C section because I was looking for courses specifically geared toward SF Engineering. Perhaps I should have said, "other than the MOS portion of SFQC, what course have you taken that most benefitted you as an 18C?"
x/S
NousDefionsDoc
10-08-2006, 15:36
Gentlemen:
I appreciate all your answers but this thread seems to have morphed in to something other than my intention. I initialled posted this question in the 18C section because I was looking for courses specifically geared toward SF Engineering. Perhaps I should have said, "other than the MOS portion of SFQC, what course have you taken that most benefitted you as an 18C?"
x/S
LOL - non-specific instructions draw non-specific results. Some FOG SF guys taught me that several times....
optactical
10-10-2006, 13:14
There aren't that many schools geared towards 18Cs in particular, I can only think of two offhand that only Cs attend, and one you need three years of team time for.
uboat509
10-10-2006, 18:53
18C schools? HAZMAT and Air Load Planner.;)
SFC W
NousDefionsDoc
10-10-2006, 19:08
18C schools? HAZMAT and Air Load Planner.;)
SFC W
I have both of those - I pissed off SGM Pete once....
Oh yeah, and then there was NBC School...
Oh, and drug and alcohol counselor...
And....
The Reaper
10-10-2006, 20:21
I have both of those - I pissed off SGM Pete once....
Oh yeah, and then there was NBC School...
Oh, and drug and alcohol counselor...
And....
Who has their Bus and 80 Pax license?:D
TR
For a civilian, post 9/11, the Urban Escape & Evasion course I just completed through Kevin Reeve of onPoint Tactical Tracking School (http://www.onpointtactical.com) was great. It's usually geared towards contractors working overseas, but he did a good job putting it into perspective in the event of disasters such as Katrina or other emergency situations.
The Reaper
10-10-2006, 20:38
For a civilian, post 9/11, the Urban Escape & Evasion course I just completed through Kevin Reeve of onPoint Tactical Tracking School (http://www.onpointtactical.com) was great. It's usually geared towards contractors working overseas, but he did a good job putting it into perspective in the event of disasters such as Katrina or other emergency situations.
From his course descriptions, he seems to lack an understanding of what Army SERE training consists of.
TR
NousDefionsDoc
10-10-2006, 20:39
Who has their Bus and 80 Pax license?:D
TR
Had both
gtcrispy
10-10-2006, 21:50
18C schools? HAZMAT and Air Load Planner.;)
SFC W
Hmm sounds like I better be asking for these two.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-11-2006, 04:50
Hmm sounds like I better be asking for these two.
LOL! These sort of just happen one day when you least expect it. They, and many of their counterpart courses, are located on a special DA Form 6 labled the "Hey You Roster" which in its unencrypted form means, "Let's see, who pissed me off last week?"
x SF med
10-11-2006, 06:26
Who has their Bus and 80 Pax license?:D
TR
Sedan, Van, ambulance (3 kinds!!), Deuce and a half, CUC-V, and Hum-V escaped both Bus and 80 Pax (guess I never pissed off SGM H too much) - but had to take winter driving 2x a year for each of the vehicles on my license (Oct and Feb usually) I was made into a snow driving god by Uncle Sam.
18C schools? HAZMAT and Air Load Planner.;)
SFC W
HAZMAT and Air Load Planner? Soldiers with that capability are very useful to the B Team. Brownie points with the SGM? You bet. But when that other, not so nice, detail comes along Brownie points can be cashed in. The SGM has a long memory.
Pete
Who as the SGM somehow ended up with a very large oil cooled French Cargo Truck on my license and delivered ammo to the teams. Talk about a hot running beast in the desert, that was it.
And who was told more than once "We could sign you out a vehicle but we don't have a driver." I carried the large form because the little license didn't have room for all the stamps. If it had wheels I had a stamp for it and we were on our way. Bus, 5 ton tractor trailer, etc, etc.
Best training is a toss up between IDMT school (learned tons and had a little fun) and CSTARS working Shock Trauma in Baltimore (pink scrub land) and riding the rigs with the Fire Dept. (learned tons and had a BLAST.)
I seem to remember some interesting plaques hanging in the trauma room as well.
Monsoon65
10-11-2006, 17:19
Most fun: DLI
Most boring: AWACS school in Keesler. I had to go to this for six months and the only thing that it had remotely in common with the aircraft I'm on now is the intercom system.
Who has their Bus and 80 Pax license?who wants to know...?;)
Hmm sounds like I better be asking for these two.ask for nothing....these opportunities will find you...
speaking as one with an 80 pax license and more time as a MACO/DACO/DZSO and air-land safety than i care to remember...
Trip_Wire (RIP)
10-11-2006, 21:55
Given 5th groups geographical A/O, and the countries surrounding the area, I was chosen as a young hard charging medic to attend.... SF Mule packing school. I kid you not good sirs! It was a rough 3 week course, learning everything from how to shoe the animals to properly packing them for a mountainous long haul to swimming but not drowning the animals while bearing their loads. The 2 weeks of classroom and hands on practical exercises was actually demanding, on both student and animals, but then came the final testing out trip. We spent a week in eastern TN in the mountains packing a teams full compliment of gear and other assorted supplies. We worked with every kind of pack animal and every situation the instructors could throw at us and man that was a fantastic school. Never got the oppurtunity to utilize the skill set, but it was fun and informative. :lifter
We had some training of this type in 1951 at then Camp Carson. (We being Korean War era Airborne Rangers.) This was coupled with cold weather and mountain training. A number of Rangers were kicked and bitten by the mules, during the training. Those Army mules were mean and sneaky devils!
As I recall the mule skinners (instructors) were from a 'Pack' Artillary unit at Carson. Most of them volunteered to become Rangers. Perhaps to get away form that unit.
I never did have to work with mules again in my Army career. It was an experience though! :eek:
One of the civilian police schools that I enjoyed and thought was very good, was the HDS (Police EOD Bomb Technicians course.) conducted by the Army EOD for us at Redstone ARSL., at Huntsville, AL :munchin
Cincinnatus
10-12-2006, 09:58
For a civilian, post 9/11, the Urban Escape & Evasion course I just completed through Kevin Reeve of onPoint Tactical Tracking School (http://www.onpointtactical.com) was great. It's usually geared towards contractors working overseas, but he did a good job putting it into perspective in the event of disasters such as Katrina or other emergency situations.
Supe,
I'm glad you got a lot from this course and would like to hear more about it.
I debated posting this as I don't want to start anything, but I have heard REALLY bad things about onPoint. I have NO first hand experience with them, but when considering taking a class with them a year or so ago, my training buddy and I heard a couple of horror stories from those who had attended (or in one case tried to attend [they showed up the instructor was completely unprepared]) onPoint classes. It's possible these were aberrations and/ or the folks there have since gotten their act together, but I know that I would be hesitant to take a course with them.
Your experience was clearly different and I would like to hear what impressed you about the class you took, what the was covered, how the class was structured, etc.
Hmm sounds like I better be asking for these two.
These are two course that I think every ODA needs. If you go down range, you don't ahve one it can get you in a jam. You'll have to do up your own -2s, but how? It happen to me on a JECT. My ran out during the JECT and the Airforce would budge on the date issue.
18C related courses:
Hazard devices school (HDS)
Most informational would be a tie:
USASOC Mountain Course, and the GATOR course http://www.omems.redstone.army.mil/default.aspx?site_id=112&page_id=242
NousDefions794
10-19-2006, 21:21
Most bestest, funnest Army school every SFARTAETC. As an 18C I learned a lot .
18C specific:
Breaching/explosive courses at Olive/TEES. I didn't go through as a student, but I was an invited guest and was able to see the training first hand.
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 16:38
As a conventional soldier with the 82nd Airborne Division I attended the Jumpmaster course which at that time was held at Pope Air Force base. It was absolutely one of toughest courses to pass at that time. I've never been so fatigued in my life having to JMPI and entire stick in less than 10 minutes. I dont know what the testing standards are today, but it was no cake walk to earn that star and twigs over my wings.
Pathfinder course was fun, but I didn't really care for sling loading anything under an UH-60 at night. SHOCK factor knocked a couple of guy's to the ground. As a matter of a fact I witnessed one of our gun sections "CUT LOOSE" a 105 in flight during a night infil.
Jack Moroney (RIP)
10-20-2006, 19:01
SHOCK factor knocked a couple of guy's to the ground. .
Ahh yes, but this does have a teaching value. I had a counter-part that I am sure was a double agent and not at all well liked by his own folks. I convinced him that he could build his own self-esteem and gain respect from his men by a daring display of professionalism and skill in slinging out a truck via a CH-54, but I "guess" he didn't hear me when I passed him the doughnut and told him not to touch the hook on that flying crane when he attempted to attach the slings. Not a pretty sight, but very instructive:D
82ndtrooper
10-20-2006, 19:35
Ahh yes, but this does have a teaching value. I had a counter-part that I am sure was a double agent and not at all well liked by his own folks. I convinced him that he could build his own self-esteem and gain respect from his men by a daring display of professionalism and skill in slinging out a truck via a CH-54, but I "guess" he didn't hear me when I passed him the doughnut and told him not to touch the hook on that flying crane when he attempted to attach the slings. Not a pretty sight, but very instructive:D
Yeah, it's got it's teaching factor thrown in there. Just glad I listened to the men like yourself when I had to actually do it.
Monsoon65
10-20-2006, 19:46
Ahh yes, but this does have a teaching value.
"Law of Intensity" I believe it's call, Sir. When I was at NCO Leadership school at Rhein Main, a friend gave the definition of this with an example: They were fast-roping and a man failed to get clear quick enough, and the guy above him came down on his head. Split the guys helmet and he bit through his tongue.
Shark Bait
10-21-2006, 14:38
Definitely the Combat Diver Qualification Course in Key West. The location and the training were both awesome. I hear they don't do crossovers anymore, though. We lost about a third of our class in the first three days due to them.
I am sure the cadre have come up with another way to weed people out.
deanwells
10-22-2006, 23:05
Definitely the Combat Diver Qualification Course in Key West. The location and the training were both awesome. I hear they don't do crossovers anymore, though. We lost about a third of our class in the first three days due to them.
I am sure the cadre have come up with another way to weed people out.
No the new thing is called forward sub-suface movements or something like that....Yep the instructors do have a few tricks even under the new MOI.
Yep CDQC is my choice as well.
Team Sergeant
10-23-2006, 10:45
Military Freefall School was a rush.
Nothing beats a classroom at 26,250 feet AGL.;)
Also very little compares to leaping from the tailgate of a C-141 at 16,000 ft into pure blackness (a moonless night) wearing O2 and 175 lbs of "equipment".
Let's put that on Fear Factor......
TS
x SF med
10-23-2006, 13:56
Let's put that on Fear Factor......TS
TS - maybe we should get a team of FOGs to go on Fear Factor, I've watched it a couple of times, and I haven't seen anything that's nearly as dangerous as pissing off (then) MAJ Howard or LTC Rowe in the Q... and the foods better too!
I completed SERE today and for someone who hasn't been to a lot of schools yet this blew me away. I loved all of the instructors and the knowledge they imparted on us all.
One of the most demanding schools was the Danish Combat Swimmers Course at Kongsore Torpedo Station, Denmark. Morning PT was a 10K run followed by an hour of soccer. Timed 1K swims were a b----! Who can forget the 3K swim towing half a telephone pole (6 guys to a pole), then carrying the damn thing a click and a half over land while wearing a drysuit. The final 10K swim in 6 hours out in the North Sea (water temp was 52 degrees!) was memorable. My swim buddy had broken his big toe on a run and couldn't kick evenly; kept trying to swim in circles. The only course more physically demanding was the SF enlisted phase I program out at Camp Mackall. I lost 43 pounds in 26 days - from 190 to 147. Oh to be in that shape today!
The Reaper
12-10-2006, 00:54
Hipshot:
You might want to read the stickies and work your way over to the Introductions thread and post one there.
Thanks, enjoy your visit.
TR
SFARTAETC
Sapper Leader Course
Q Course
M-60 machine gunners course (just because I got to carry the M-60 in the trunk of my POV) :cool:
Blue
CDRODA396
12-17-2006, 20:17
Not for what you might think. Both courses are awesome studies of human nature. There is nothing like watching humans interact when broken down to the barest of existence and having to perform. Its amazing what humans will do when faced with a little hunger, sleep deprivation, adverse weather and an evaluators pen! Definately worth going to both, just to watch your fellow man deal with his own "inner challanges."
I bet shrinks wet themselves when they are invited to observe either course.
Not for what you might think. Both courses are awesome studies of human nature. There is nothing like watching humans interact when broken down to the barest of existence and having to perform. Its amazing what humans will do when faced with a little hunger, sleep deprivation, adverse weather and an evaluators pen! Definately worth going to both, just to watch your fellow man deal with his own "inner challanges."
I bet shrinks wet themselves when they are invited to observe either course.
For me it was Pre-Scuba/ CDQC hands down!
Its amazing what humans will do when faced with certain death by drowning.
DW, I'm with you!
.....MDW
Forgot to add:
SFARTEC. The E&I change out as often as commanders. Changed my career path in SF.
Survey Team School in Tampa. Showed me there are other ways to make a living besides blowing stuff up.
The Old Guy
03-23-2007, 22:03
1984 SOT
How can anyone have so much fun and get paid to do it?
zipgunlead
03-24-2007, 20:45
For the sheer fun of it - Rod Hall's offroad racing school in Reno, NV. Wasn't too long but just for the location and the fun it was great.
zipgunlead
Demerde-toi
09-17-2007, 17:30
Le Centre d'Entraînement en Forêt Equatoriale
The Legions Jungle Commando Stage.....
ouch.....but the most enjoyable by far
Somewhat back on point...
The best training for SF demolitions was a full day of C-4, PETN, det cord, and electric/non-electric caps and no formal POI.
We made charges, from shaped (funnels in the bottom of coke cans) to cigarette pack linear shaped charges that would slice cleanly through the staple of a lock with little side blast, to platters, etc. Just a full day for "think up a problem, build the charge, blow it, look it over, do in again better and with less explosive."
We cut steel, shattered wrought iron, pulverized concrete.
We sliced C4 thin with razor knives, tried to see how little we could use to cut, pierce, shape, etc. Sometimes we didn't get a detonation (except for the cap) because we sliced it too thin.
Anyway, at the end of the day we had a command over the subject that we could not have developed had we been under structured adult supervision.
Too late to list a week long school called: "Tactical Tracking Operations" with David Scott-Donelan a few years back?:munchin
Either that or "Tripwires & Booby-Traps" school at the state academy? This one still makes me nervous just thinking about it.
Irishsquid
09-21-2007, 07:08
Le Centre d'Entraînement en Forêt Equatoriale
The Legions Jungle Commando Stage.....
ouch.....but the most enjoyable by far
Le Centre d'Entraînement Commando en Arta Plage was awesome too.
Legion's Desert Commando Stage. Just about the only formal training I've really enjoyed thus far. I wish I could go back and do it again.
soldierteacher
09-21-2007, 11:04
My God there were so many opportunities for the good, the bad(ass), and the ugly.....O&I Course 1982, SOT @ Mott Lake, Gunsite in Arizona, every deployment outside of Bragg with an ODA......we lived what many can only dream of.....what more can you ask for or need........;)
Team Sergeant
09-21-2007, 11:25
My God there were so many opportunities for the good, the bad(ass), and the ugly.....O&I Course 1982, SOT @ Mott Lake, Gunsite in Arizona, every deployment outside of Bragg with an ODA......we lived what many can only dream of.....what more can you ask for or need........;)
You're kidding right?;):rolleyes:
Nothing compared to graduating 16 weeks of Special Forces Sniper School.;)
shadowwalker
09-22-2007, 02:06
For me hostage negotiation, and SRT. Learned a lot in both and they were both fun.
I hate to be the token Newbie with the lame post but seeing as I am an X-ray and have about 4 days in the army I would have to say that the best and only non-pipeline school I have attended would have to be CDQC. The environment and the way they run things there was my first real taste of an all SF ran environment ... It was pretty amazing and the chow hall food was top notch. :-)
tom kelly
09-24-2007, 20:40
One of the more interesting schools was the one conducted by the NVA and the VC in the late summer and fall of 1964 in the vicinity of the Ia Drang Valley
Irishsquid
09-25-2007, 12:49
I hate to be the token Newbie with the lame post but seeing as I am an X-ray and have about 4 days in the army I would have to say that the best and only non-pipeline school I have attended would have to be CDQC. The environment and the way they run things there was my first real taste of an all SF ran environment ... It was pretty amazing and the chow hall food was top notch. :-)
Trust me you aren't the only token newbie. I'm not even in the Army yet. 32 days left on my Navy enlistment. I just got lucky enough to work with 20th Group. They definitely hooked me up with some cool shit to do :-)
EOD Supervisor's Course 2002
Flaps and Seals Course 1994
SOT 1981
SFQC 1978
Winter Warfare IC 1980
warrottjr
12-17-2007, 12:45
Special Operations Communication Systems Maintenance Course
The most fun was the Belgium Commando Course (Level 1) because I got a cool triangle shaped black & white patch with a dagger on it and Belgium jump wings.
The most stressful was the MACV Recondo Course because the last week was a real world combat patrol.
Mike
ZGallegos
12-17-2007, 20:50
Deleted by User
I sat in a group one snowy night as we listened to a Senior NCO recount the difficulty of his Belgian Commando training/course experience.
I hadn't thought of it in years until I read the above posts. I do remember he thought it to be one of the best HSLD short courses/training he had been to...best foreign course anyway.
Firearmz
01-01-2008, 20:45
Everyone seems to have me beat with all of the HSLD Schools in the military. I did have license for M151, M35, M1A1, M113, and numerous others. As for civilian schools after the Army I would probably say Ken Hackathorns Advanced Tactical Pistol Course, then SouthNarcs ECQC 1 and 2.
Divemaster
01-06-2008, 04:55
Toughest: 7th ID Air Assault...just ask the women in my class :D
Seriously, toughest: Ranger Class 11-87...wait, actually the 7th ID pre-ranger course. Shorter and harder...just like my
School where I (imaturely) prayed for a home invasion: SFARTAETC
School where I (imaturely) prayed for a home invader to run away: SOTIC (later became an insructor there)
Best school I graduated from and worst school ever disbsanded: Special Forces Waterborne Infiltration Course (WIC)
Only school I almost failed: HALO. I'm one of the few guys featured in the video follies who graduated.
Blitzzz (RIP)
04-02-2008, 21:26
Hey Divemaster, did you go to one of the first three WIC courses? I was instramental in that course's development. I also invented that rigging system for the Zodiac for attaching to a Blackhawk. Oh back to the thread. my most enjoyable was advanced demo course run at Site 39. Anyone not familiar with the place...well that Okey. Blitz
Weaponsguy76
04-03-2008, 02:40
Yeah SFARTAETC was great. Went through with 1/7 Bco in 2006.
SOTIC II in Alabama was a blast
The L.E. schools that I liked the most were:
1. Bahnfair School of Scientific Investigation - three weeks in South Lake Tahoe (Nevada Side). 9:00 am - 3:30 p.m. - five days a week. Spent a couple of hours at mock crime scenes and the rest of the day in the photo lab.
2. CHP-EVOC - two weeks of driving 440 Dodge patrol cars around skid pans and high speed (120mph+).
3. Hostage Negotiations Course. Taught by Dr. Harvey Schlossberg (father of hostage negotiations).
4. FBI SWAT School.
5. FBI Sniper Course.
charlietwo
04-16-2008, 21:54
Most fun- HAVACE down in Florida
Most informative- Gryphon Driving School Phase 1
Most influential (hands down)- SERE-C
the Northern Warfare Training Course (NWTC) in Ft Greely, Alaska. Black Rapids lodge and MT Gunnysack for the mountain course, the Tahnanah River for the riverine opns and of course some glacier. I did the summer and winter course and in the winter portion, did alott of what you 10th group guys would perhaps regard as routine. Cross country skiing, Ice caves, a biatholon and just plain freezing our arses off. Great fun.
Some man tracking courses were very insightful.
RECONDO school from my 82d days was also great. Almost as much fun as Charlie's Chicken Farm (CCF). I sure learned a bunch from them as well......jd
RECONDO school from my 82d days was also great. Almost as much fun as Charlie's Chicken Farm (CCF). I sure learned a bunch from them as well......jdI did both however; I took the short-timer's version of CCF.
Stay safe.
sfmedicw9
08-23-2008, 19:42
the best as far as enjoyable for me was the old SOT courses back in the early 80s when some characters like paul pool was there - dont do courses like that anymore - totaly kecked back / extremely useful and old school
did the 13 week course ( i think 8 or less now) at mott lake range 37 - Another excellent shooting / CQB course ALWAYS useful
Best course for just plain getting into shape - Scuba School
Best course for sun tan - DMT
worse course for getting into shape - Ranger school - neevr did figure why you send out a recon for your RON - if your standing in a place its recconed - just set into your positions
Course that gave me the worse callouses from writing - O&I
Course that gave me the most hangovers - 300F1 (down in Ft sam Houston
Course with the biggest pains in the ass 82 ABN JM course (damnit if im fuxking with a static line why should I have to verbalise it)
and if i could choose a course to attend again - MFF on FT bragg on st mere with rolands oyter grill nearby
69harley
08-23-2008, 20:06
Any of the technical surveillance courses run by the guys at Tactical Support Equipment in Fayetteville.
60_Driver
08-24-2008, 16:25
Learned the most about my trade: HAATS.
Learned the most about myself: SERE C.
SERE Instructor course, OCT '85............
Mac
"What you think we aren't....we are!" Confederate Bushwhacker 1863
Joint firepower coordination course
SOTIC Level II at 5th Group , Campbell. No offense Longrange1947, I had a blast with you guys too at Bragg. D. Davis and S. Houston are great instructors, plus there were fewer students and all the ammo I could put down range.
kellyeod
01-02-2009, 19:03
As an Engineering type I loved Sapper School (pre-tab days, you know…when it was hard). I also got to attend a target analysis course that was awesome, but it took some brain power to complete. But the best time ever at a military school – MFF (HALO). First the course is a blast all by itself, but Lake Havasue during Spring Break…you got to be kidding me that I got paid for that trip!
Agreed, by far MFF is the best or funnest elite school I have had priveldge to attend. But my course was far better than Yuma. I attended the Tac Air course in Otay Lakes/Jamul, CA an Eastern suburb of San Diego. Its kinda like this:
MFF.......................................$6000
Lost Rip Cord..........................$100
Premiun case of beer................$24
Army Airborne Shuffle.....Worthless
Not being trained by the Army.......PRICELESS
;)
The Reaper
01-02-2009, 19:09
Agreed, by far MFF is the best or funnest elite school I have had priveldge to attend. But my course was far better than Yuma. I attended the Tac Air course in Otay Lakes/Jamul, CA an Eastern suburb of San Diego. Its kinda like this:
MFF.......................................$6000
Lost Rip Cord..........................$100
Premiun case of beer................$24
Army Airborne Shuffle.....Worthless
Not being trained by the Army.......PRICELESS
;)
I wouldn't push that line too hard here.
TR
kellyeod
01-02-2009, 19:23
I wouldn't push that line too hard here.
TR
Understood Sir...I will be a polite guest.
The Raven-B Operators Course was an interesting and useful school.
White Water Rafting school was fun ....and useful as well. I went through the rafting course with a bunch of PJs.
Gryphon Group was a blast also.
EMS Climbing School in North Conway,NH. We went as a team and it was a blast! The only military thing we had to do was make comms every day. The rest was just climb the rocks.
MFF was the funnest course I went to. Our class was a riot.
SERE was the best course I went to. I think I learned the most from it. though 2 close friends seemed to give me "extra" attention. especially since I knew all the commands for his dog. The look on his face at one moment was priceless when I spun around and he saw me. "Thank you Dave, may I have another.":D
SERE was another we (053) attended as a team. We did learn a lot. Only you would have the inside track on the dog commands Stras! During our class, a Rottweiler they had flung a female and another young kid like they were ragdolls!
...but MERLIN (now TSOAC) was an incredible course. Run by retired SAS/SBS/SRR SGMs. Literally, every damn one of them...
And there was none of the "normally we would do (insert your expensive activity of choice)." At the time of my attendance, MERLIN was THE top funded course under USASFC. Nikon 300Ds? Check. 30 vehicle fleet for mobile surveillance? Check. Need a helo overflight for Air Recce during CULEX? No worries.
Makes for a damn fine course.
SFARTAETC
I'd pay to go back through that school.
:)
...but MERLIN (now TSOAC) was an incredible course. Run by retired SAS/SBS/SRR SGMs. Literally, every damn one of them...
And there was none of the "normally we would do (insert your expensive activity of choice)." At the time of my attendance, MERLIN was THE top funded course under USASFC. Nikon 300Ds? Check. 30 vehicle fleet for mobile surveillance? Check. Need a helo overflight for Air Recce during CULEX? No worries.
Makes for a damn fine course.
I got my wand and pointy hat also!! I went in 2007, great time, one of my instructors was on the SBS raid on the tanker after 9-11.
I can't compete with the mil HSLD schools ya'll have been to. Most fun CIV LE school: DEA Meth Cooking School at Quantico,VA. Fun times and always held out the possibility that if you got your chemistry wrong, you could blow the whole lab up!
SERE, for the memories,
O&I, for the obscure reading,
Static Line Jump Master, for the everyday SF stuff we do,
NWTC, which is an absolute gut check,
WIC, for the love of water,
and finally, the most fun anyone could possibly have would be the DOD Defensive Driving Course.
Green Light
11-26-2010, 07:27
Special Action Team Course - in the "city": More shooting than you could ever want and better shooting than you could ever do at Bragg (safety rules were a bit "truncated")
Special Action Team Sniper - in the "city": Learned a great deal about ballistics and long shots. Had a 750 meter stress shoot at the end with a mannequin filled with blood bags (expired and donated from the hospital). Made for a spectacular headshot.
HALO Jumpmaster: One of the best-taught schools with the highest standards (no pun intended) I've ever been to. Higher stress than . . .
Static Line Jumpmaster (Bad Tölz): Great cadre making use of limited facilities, limited weather, and limited aircraft. They were brutal - 9/40 passed. I was VERY lucky - they only day I passed JMPI was on the final test.
Ret10Echo
11-26-2010, 07:28
For "fun"...AMFF. Transitioning to a BOC and tracking drills...:lifter
Cat II SOTIC at Carson. Great classmates, quality instruction and LOTS of range time.
Static Line Jumpmaster (Bad Tölz): Great cadre making use of limited facilities, limited weather, and limited aircraft. They were brutal - 9/40 passed. I was VERY lucky - they only day I passed JMPI was on the final test.
I went through as an E-4 in November 1984. My Pathfinder detachment sent two of us E-4s and our LT. My buddy, T. Miller (later a HALO Jumpmaster instrutor at Bragg), and I passed and the LT failed. You either passed the first time in each graded event or you failed the course which led to about a 50% attition rate. The only slack they cut was we didn't have to pronounce the correct terminology on gigs during the graded JMPI. They only required us to point out the gig and make it clear to the grader that it was a problem. CW3 Mims was my grader on the JMPI test and he stood in front of me with his clipboard and a stop watch and I'd point out the gig and say, "that's f....ed up." He'd just smile and nod . :D
Green Light
11-26-2010, 10:58
I went through as an E-4 in November 1984. My Pathfinder detachment sent two of us E-4s and our LT. My buddy, T. Miller (later a HALO Jumpmaster instrutor at Bragg), and I passed and the LT failed. You either passed the first time in each graded event or you failed the course which led to about a 50% attition rate. The only slack they cut was we didn't have to pronounce the correct terminology on gigs during the graded JMPI. They only required us to point out the gig and make it clear to the grader that it was a problem. CW3 Mims was my grader on the JMPI test and he stood in front of me with his clipboard and a stop watch and I'd point out the gig and say, "that's f....ed up." He'd just smile and nod . :D
Mims is an old friend and mentor. I ended up getting part of his WOC kit (handed down through another guy). Truly one of the great warrant officers - I believe he was in the first class. He also had one of the most wickedly dry senses of humor I've ever seen. My favorite quote from him (after a particularly embarrassing goof) was "Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield." It's always stuck with me. A real hero - discussion for another day.
Blitzzz (RIP)
11-26-2010, 11:23
J.P and I go way back 7th Group, Language school, Det. A. and still friends.
Green Light
11-26-2010, 12:22
J.P and I go way back 7th Group, Language school, Det. A. and still friends.
Tell him I said "Hi." You two were quite a pair. :D I still remember that comment he made at that bridge site we were working at: "Nur eine augenblik!" (Funniest damned thing I've ever heard in German - the Germans and the Gringos were rolling).
Mims is an old friend and mentor. I ended up getting part of his WOC kit (handed down through another guy). Truly one of the great warrant officers - I believe he was in the first class. He also had one of the most wickedly dry senses of humor I've ever seen. My favorite quote from him (after a particularly embarrassing goof) was "Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield." It's always stuck with me. A real hero - discussion for another day.
I also understood he was in the first WO class and I was always impressed by his demeanor which exemplified professionalism. On our last graded night jump, things went south pretty quick when one of the SSGs from PCT broke a leg, an XO from one of the Teams lost his Rolex and I almost lost my life because Mims caught his fingers between my static line and the door when I exited the aircraft. The next morning while in formation in the quad, I was hiding in the last rank when Mims yelled out my name and said he if he could have dragged me back in the aircraft, he would have ended my short life. If you happen to see him, ask him if he remembers that incident. :D
I remember a video circulating around of a Jump Master course. The JM student in the door was a woman, a small woman who did everything correctly until she attempted to inspect the door with locked arms.
The JM grader, looked up from his clip board, noticing she had disappeared, simply threw out her page after her, NO-GO, too funny.
Green Light
11-26-2010, 22:29
They guy who pushed the door bundle on the pass before mine at JM school had problems getting it to slide off the tailgate. By the time he went out the door the light had turned red. The instructor wadded up the score sheet and threw it out after him.
It really shook me. On the next pass I got my bundle on the balance point and waited for the green light. When it turned I gave it a push and it went. The bundle took a half-gainer and the static line broke away at the cotton tape at the clevis. I watched it fall away from the aircraft for a second with a knot in my stomach and turned to my jumpers and said "Go". I expected my sheet to follow me out of the aircraft, but they counted it as a malfunction.
Every time I hear about a JM student goofing up in the aircraft I think of that day. It was still fun. I was a lucky E5.
Snaquebite
11-27-2010, 09:14
MOTC..
Long but one of the most interesting/fun/useful courses I ever attended. Still using many of it's lessons on a day to day basis.
SLJM was a blur since I was a blade runner. MFF JM was an excellent run class although the math involved reminded me of calc and place in the charlie course. I sure did have fun trying to spot my HARP the size of a fingernail while wearing a O2 mask with fogged up goggles from breathing hard!!!!
Team Sergeant
11-27-2010, 23:17
SLJM was a blur since I was a blade runner. MFF JM was an excellent run class although the math involved reminded me of calc and place in the charlie course. I sure did have fun trying to spot my HARP the size of a fingernail while wearing a O2 mask with fogged up goggles from breathing hard!!!!
I didn't know you were a "sky god".;)
You don't even have to breath hard to fog those goggles.
I never put on (pulled down) my goggles until the JM gave the "thumbs up", they always foged up inside the bird.
I didn't know you were a "sky god".;)
You don't even have to breath hard to fog those goggles.
I never put on (pulled down) my goggles until the JM gave the "thumbs up", they always foged up inside the bird.
I remember back when I was the cherry and now I'm the guy doing the spotting and shrugging my shoulders and pointing "go" !!!!:D
I got a hard slot for MFF ATIC next year and I heard that class rocks!!!!
Airborne06
12-20-2010, 10:20
Most fun was the Health Emergencies in Large Populations course (H.E.L.P.), not just because it was full of useful information, but because it was taught at the University of Hawaii over a 3 week period. The Dynamics of International Terrorism course at Hurlbert was interesting as well..plenty of guest speakers with experience in the field.
Best (relaxing):
US Army Support Command Thailand's Basic Leaderschip School.
I had to go to Lopburi to pick up med supplies and mail and was nailed by CSM Lynch for needing a haircut and a better maintained uniform. To teach me a lesson, he sent me to the BLS down-country on the coast at Camp Samaesan near Utapao RTAFB.
Hot showers, pool, rec center, movie theater, bowling alley, beaches, water skiing - a far cry from our camp up-country and one of the most relaxing weeks of my life.
I had spent all my $$ on 'entertainment' in Bangkok over a weekend enroute from our camp to Samaesan, so couldn't afford the 'expected' maid service and had to clean my own room, press my uniforms, and polish my boots. That earned me a 'cheap charlie' award because the maids wouldn't barter for services, but I was the Honor Graduate for the course.
When I went back through Lopburi to see the CSM enroute back to our camp, I thanked him for sending me down there to get a nice tan and a week of rest - pissed him off again and the result was a less than subtle warning that I should avoid Lopburi in the future. I did.
That was a GREAT course.
Best (training):
Several exchange trainings.
Richard :munchin
mark46th
12-20-2010, 14:25
Rich- Was that in 1972? I went through it also. That was when Pattaya was uncrowded and not polluted. I went back in 2005. The water was gray and to find live coral, you had to go almost to Cambodia...
GrumpyMedic
12-20-2010, 17:46
I attended a Surreptitious Entry course in VT run by North-Wind, INC. Their CULEX was great. Local companies donate their structures/vehicles/offices/safes during off hours for the students to make entry. It was very realistic.
By far was MFF. I couldn't believe that I was actually being paid to go through that course. I would pay to go through it again! (MFFJM, not nearly as much fun...)
Dave
Bushranger
12-21-2010, 02:31
- IJPC - International Jungle Patrol Course, run by Brits in Belize... I felt in love with jungle, and Raul´s Rose garden also was not bad:-)
- Ranger School was good training, I still remeber debusing in sunny autumn day 2003 in Camp Merill, feeling the fresh chill and seeing that amazing colors all around. I would like to visit that place again somedays.
1stindoor
12-21-2010, 07:16
For me it was the Water Infiltration Course in Key West. This was back in '91 when it was a seperate course, 6 weeks long, and brutal on the body. It cemented my desire to be a diver though as I thought those instructors were by far the most professional and knowledgeable people I had ever worked with.
Blitzzz (RIP)
12-21-2010, 07:52
I don't think there was a tougher course anywhere.
When reviewed by British SBS commander, he comment was that this course was too ambitious.
SEAL commander didn't think it could be pulled off. My hats off to the guys who completed it.
WholeManin2010
12-21-2010, 08:42
- IJPC - International Jungle Patrol Course, run by Brits in Belize... I felt in love with jungle, and Raul´s Rose garden also was not bad:-)...
My family is from Belize, and I lived there for a bit as well.
The jungle is amazing, as are all of its inhabitants - jaguars (tigah), tapirs (mountain cow), javelina (peccary) and much, much more.
Raul's is something else - hope you didn't leave with any recurring "souvenirs ..." :munchin
Bushranger
12-21-2010, 08:58
My family is from Belize, and I lived there for a bit as well.
The jungle is amazing, as are all of its inhabitants - jaguars (tigah), tapirs (mountain cow), javelina (peccary) and much, much more.
Raul's is something else - hope you didn't leave with any recurring "souvenirs ..." :munchin
No, I just vomited all around the place (outside) because damn british Gurkhas gave me some super strong dip with glass cotton inside. I normally do not dip.
I was able to attend the German Army Ski Instructor Course in 1984 and again in 85. In 84 were wore a combination of US and German uniforms and in 85 US only. The course was taught on the Zugspitz (Garmisch) and the AFRC types couldn't believe we were getting paid to be there, they were jealous as hell.
I was able to attend the German Army Ski Instructor Course in 1984 and again in 85. In 84 were wore a combination of US and German uniforms and in 85 US only. The course was taught on the Zugspitz (Garmisch) and the AFRC types couldn't believe we were getting paid to be there, they were jealous as hell.
All that talent, money invested and you move to Arizona.
Irishsquid
12-21-2010, 18:08
I know it's not as "high speed," as some of the other courses listed here, but the National Guard NCO reclass course for 11B was one of the best learning experiences of my life. Learned a lot of good stuff there, and not just from the instructors. The students there brought a LOT of talent to the table.
Masochist
12-21-2010, 18:41
I know it's not as "high speed," as some of the other courses listed here, but the National Guard NCO reclass course for 11B was one of the best learning experiences of my life. Learned a lot of good stuff there, and not just from the instructors. The students there brought a LOT of talent to the table.
Sounds like when I went through IBOLC. The least combat-experienced soldiers (outside of the non-prior LTs) were some of the cadre, as they'd been relegated to TRADOC the past few years. My PLT alone had an E-7 and E-8 with multiple tours both in the box and as Drills. Their wisdom was invaluable, and the time the prior-service guys spent mentoring the green LTs made it a very worthwhile experience for all.
WD,
I'm only 45 minutes from skiing (they call it that here locally) on Mt. Lemon.
MVP;)
WD,
I'm only 45 minutes from skiing (they call it that here locally) on Mt. Lemon.
MVP;)
Nice area, helped a friend pull one big bull Elk out of there last Sept.
Basic Boarding Training - Basically a lot of fast roping, speedboating, and shooting all the way. Mid summer ... was a blast and no pressure cause me and one buddy were only there to fill some empty seats ;)
Force Protection Course I - BIIIG Fun. Had been one of the first classes of this course so not all did work properly but bashing into a rioting mob with a baton was new and thrilling
Ranger Course I (EKL1) - where Part II is really demanding and a hell of a course Part I is basically cruel physical punishment with minor warfares for 4 weeks. A bit of SERE, a lot of leading a abandoned/dislocated squad with unknown soldiers some CQB and the beatiful landscape of the Allgäu in June. God I loved it.
Once had the chance to take an EIB course (can you call it that?). Did learn a whole lot in prep for that (us weapons and ammunition, some tactics that differed and so on). Very challenging but still one of my favorite experiences. And Virginia is just a beatiful State.
MFF ATIC. I learned alot of TTP's and it sure was a blast doing all that cool guy stuff. First time using the POM and I love it. The instructors were all top notch.
My first best course was P training RVN 1968, Instructor said what you learn today will happen again in a few weeks but I won't be giving that class. After that a Chaplin informs us that half of you may not be here to long so fill out these post cards and send them home, as we all looked at each other thinking WTF he must mean you.
NCOC...the Non Commissioned Officers Course or Shake n' Bake course. The Army took a Pvt. and turned me into a Sgt to lead a squad in Viet Nam.
Very controversial deal for those that took years to get their stripes but the combat arms was losing (kia/wia/ets) junior NCO's faster than could be produced normally.
They only taught combat skills, if you had a class on close air support you took notes, then went to the field and called in live close air.
Had a class on arty, then sat in a foxhole and called in live Danger close arty. Etc, Etc. Everyone knew the grad exercise was combat so no BS.
Made me tactically proficient at a jr level right quick, opords, ambush, patrolling...was all hands on and excellent. The Tach NCO's had all just come back from 'the Nam' and were great....
What they didn't teach me was how to take care of soldiers...but that wasn't a requirement in RVN, just executing the mission and keeping them alive. Took me awhile to adjust to stateside soldiering (families etc) but I had great NCO mentors.
Being an Infantry E5 squad leader in Vietnam with less than a year in service was a most exciting time and I loved every freakin minute of it.
Being an Infantry E5 squad leader in Vietnam with less than a year in service was a most exciting time and I loved every freakin minute of it.
Very encouraging... I am headed to Afghanistan in a month as a E-3 team leader... I'm really nervous and excited, we are headed to COP Badel in Konar Province, which we're told is one of the most kinetic outposts in Afghanistan.
My best "school" so far is the Pre-Ranger Program @ 25th ID, taught me that my body will far outlast my mind. Unfortunately we only had 5 Ranger slots, and my battalion choose to send more experienced soldiers to Ranger School over me.
Very encouraging... I am headed to Afghanistan in a month as a E-3 team leader... I'm really nervous and excited, we are headed to COP Badel in Konar Province, which we're told is one of the most kinetic outposts in Afghanistan.
My best "school" so far is the Pre-Ranger Program @ 25th ID, taught me that my body will far outlast my mind. Unfortunately we only had 5 Ranger slots, and my battalion choose to send more experienced soldiers to Ranger School over me.
All you can do is your best and you'll find that it will be just right. I was sent to the 25th ID in VietNam...2/14 Golden Dragons as a cherry E5. I had guys that had been in country and seasoned that I outranked and they watched me like a freakin hawk to see if I could cut it. I just did what I was taught.
My only advice at this stage is to lead by example and the guys will do as you do. Don't bitch about the chain of command cause you are in it now.
Find a mentor, an NCO you respect in the platoon, and seek his advice etc when you need it...don't be afraid to ask him questions etc.
Finally just this young soldier....don't doubt yourself...everyone is afraid, each and everyday everyone is afraid of the decisions they've made or failed to make...that is a constant of life so don't feel like the Lone Ranger, it's normal.
But keep that fear to yourself, mask it, and rise above it...be calm and deliberate...if you can do that, make decisions when others get 'excited' men will follow you anywhere.
Remember, wether you wear the rank or not doesn't matter at this point, you are a leader...lead.
God bless you too.
olhamada
02-19-2011, 22:44
Dive school. Physically demanding, intellectually challenging, fun, exhausting, and incredibly fulfilling.
Dozer523
02-20-2011, 04:49
CAS Cubed as a CPT at FT Leavenworth during the summer (when the Majors were NOT there; CGSC not in-session) was a hoot.
greenberetTFS
02-20-2011, 06:24
NCOC...the Non Commissioned Officers Course or Shake n' Bake course. The Army took a Pvt. and turned me into a Sgt to lead a squad in Viet Nam.
Very controversial deal for those that took years to get their stripes but the combat arms was losing (kia/wia/ets) junior NCO's faster than could be produced normally.
They only taught combat skills, if you had a class on close air support you took notes, then went to the field and called in live close air.
Had a class on arty, then sat in a foxhole and called in live Danger close arty. Etc, Etc. Everyone knew the grad exercise was combat so no BS.
Made me tactically proficient at a jr level right quick, opords, ambush, patrolling...was all hands on and excellent. The Tach NCO's had all just come back from 'the Nam' and were great....
What they didn't teach me was how to take care of soldiers...but that wasn't a requirement in RVN, just executing the mission and keeping them alive. Took me awhile to adjust to stateside soldiering (families etc) but I had great NCO mentors.
Being an Infantry E5 squad leader in Vietnam with less than a year in service was a most exciting time and I loved every freakin minute of it.
PRB,
Far as I'm concern you had a lot of guts taking on that responsibly........ Not many men can do and do it well............ My beret is off to you...........;)
Big Teddy :munchin
Merlin.
"You're all fookin experts now are ya?!" - George
Raine_n_Roses
02-23-2011, 18:46
Originally Posted by PRB
NCOC...the Non Commissioned Officers Course or Shake n' Bake course. The Army took a Pvt. and turned me into a Sgt to lead a squad in Viet Nam.
Very controversial deal for those that took years to get their stripes but the combat arms was losing (kia/wia/ets) junior NCO's faster than could be produced normally.
They only taught combat skills, if you had a class on close air support you took notes, then went to the field and called in live close air.
Had a class on arty, then sat in a foxhole and called in live Danger close arty. Etc, Etc. Everyone knew the grad exercise was combat so no BS.
Made me tactically proficient at a jr level right quick, opords, ambush, patrolling...was all hands on and excellent. The Tach NCO's had all just come back from 'the Nam' and were great....
What they didn't teach me was how to take care of soldiers...but that wasn't a requirement in RVN, just executing the mission and keeping them alive. Took me awhile to adjust to stateside soldiering (families etc) but I had great NCO mentors.
Being an Infantry E5 squad leader in Vietnam with less than a year in service was a most exciting time and I loved every freakin minute of it.
I agree with GreenBeret....Sir....All hats off to you.
Very encouraging. Even If Iam not SF, but just a Soldier. Thank you Sir.
Merlin.
"You're all fookin experts now are ya?!" - George
for my class it was"Special Forces my ass"
I couldn't put one formal school as way better than others I have been to, but think I had extra good classes OCONUS thru MTTs that at the schoolhouses in CONUS a couple of times. Notably, Sniper School and Air Assault School did things different when they were away from the flagpole.
Best Stateside course I went to: Sapper. First Infantry allowed in to my knowldge.
SCHOOL I MISSED NOT GETTING BY FAR THE MOST:
RECONDO at Fort Bragg which was mandatory for ALL E4s before they went to PNCOC. I was just an E1-E3 and got levied to Germany right after Grenada.
They went to this great idea that everyone would go to Ranger School instead and of course not everyone does or can. RECONDO guaranteed 100% that no dead weight is going to make E5.
BEST TRAINING
I enlisted in 82 and my Squad Leader and above were all from the 173rd and Vietnam Vets. They taught so many things that weren't captured in the FMs its a shame that they are all just about gone now.
AND PRB
I had to chuckle a bit about your concern about the way you got your stripes. You became an NCO alot faster leading men in combat that anyone will in a schoolhouse, particullarly with the POI they teach these days.
Also, you just gave me a good reminder about leadership the way you spoke humbly to the young PFC on the board (good luck to you by the way). That was the type of NCO Corp I was raised by and was very lucky to have been around such men. As I enlisted on my 17th Birthday, I got lucky to have such role models. So many Super Heros today who made their rank by making a big deal about how rear echelon types wear their ear plug case on a FOB, its terrifying!
Anyways, thanks for the read.
Dirt Farmer
08-03-2011, 06:13
SOT, was the best for me.
Ranger school was the hardest, 1/80
Amphibius Recon school Virgina Beach by Force recon was a vaction.
Sadm was the most serious.
School I missed because there were two Johnsons in our company was Advanced Demo.
Every time I hear about a JM student goofing up in the aircraft I think of that day. It was still fun. I was a lucky E5.
I like to re-read this thread whenever it pops up, the many stories make it a favorite.
I've come to the conclusion that the Static JM course is a "milestone - gate keeper" course. Without it, few attend O&I, no one attends MFF-JM, you need it for Dive Sup, WIC, Winter Warfare, BN S3, and countless other SF assignments. With the JM under your belt, you become more safety aware and from first hand experience, a better "trainer".
The JM course represents all that SF stands for, the simplicity of UW, training indigs, the fight for freedom, etc. The level of professionalism in a ODA lead Jump Master course, taught by MTT is unique. If one can attend the JM course, do so.
As for my JM graded jump, the aircraft was a Vietnam era Otter Caribou. Flight records had it supporting SF teams from 1962-1966, RVTN. The port side engine caught fire, and my JM command was "Exit the aircraft NOW".
ObliqueApproach
08-03-2011, 07:33
This is a great thread and my first time to see it!:D
From the perspective of learning about myself, for me it would have to be SERE, with the main learning points being:
1) You are not as tough as you think
2) The occupants of Room 7 were true heroes
3) Pain hurts
4) 110% is not always the right answer
5) The Code of Conduct is real
I also learned that you can get road rash on your face from a vertical concrete wall if you fall asleep standing up!:D
howieb110
08-03-2011, 07:52
For me it was SFARTAETC. All the ammo you want to shoot and more. Really teaches "Shoot, Move, and Communicate. It was even better to go back as an instructor.
Dirt Farmer
08-03-2011, 10:09
This is a great thread and my first time to see it!:D
From the perspective of learning about myself, for me it would have to be SERE, with the main learning points being:
1) You are not as tough as you think
2) The occupants of Room 7 were true heroes
3) Pain hurts
4) 110% is not always the right answer
5) The Code of Conduct is real
I also learned that you can get road rash on your face from a vertical concrete wall if you fall asleep standing up!:D
When I was first on my team, senior Demo Sgt kept trying to get me sent to SERE. I really did not want to do that school. After going to Ranger school class of 1/80, I had, had enough "I am hard schools" for awhile.
For me it was a toss up between SOT and Advance Demo. For one we got to blow the crap out of alot of different items that we didn't normally see and the other really gave us the opportunity to hone shooting skills with live action in a realistic setting.
The most interesting had to have been ILRRPS in Germany. Got to work with alot of different airborne/sf units from different countries. We were kind of thrown together to make one unit so there was exposure to different ideas, techniques and skills
TrapperFrank
10-03-2011, 17:40
It would have to be SERE school for best I ever attended. It taught me more about myself than anything else. It was an honor and a privledge to be in the presence of some real heros like Dan Pitzer and Earl Bleacher.