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Irishsquid
09-06-2006, 15:17
I realize this isn't a very good mark in my favor. I am facing a possible NJP, depending on what kind of mood my XO is in. I'm looking at possible reduction in rate to E4, and some time on restriction. I'm AD Navy right now, and I know that to attend BUD/S, you have to have a waiver for any NJP in the last 3 years. I am planning to move over to the MS Army National Guard, hopefully to join the ranks of 20th Group, early next year. Is there any sort of waiver requirement to attend SFAS and SFQC with an NJP in my service record? If so, can I begin applying for the waiver while I'm still in the Navy? I spoke to someone at 20th Group, but he didn't seem to know. I'll still be leaving the Navy with an Honorable discharge, and an RE code of 1, if that helps. Thanks in advance for any information.



IT2(SW)

x SF med
09-06-2006, 15:30
OK, fess up. What did you do to rate the possibility of NJP? The seriousness of the offense may have some play? Also type - did you strike an officer or Sr NCO, did you willfully disregard an order, did you fall asleep on guard, did you create a safety or health hazard?

Can't answer without some general background of the incident.

The Reaper
09-06-2006, 17:19
IIRC, you will need a waiver, and a separation shortly afterwards, whatever the reason without sufficient time to prove that it was an abberration and you have "soldiered out ot it" will not help.

Frankly, most times it indicates a lack of maturity, a serious personal problem, an inability to follow instructions, a lack of SA, or a combination of the above.

Not sure how the Navy does it, but you might consider asking for a local unofficial punishment that will not appear on your record.

Good luck.

TR

Irishsquid
09-06-2006, 17:53
Ok...time to, as you put it, fess up: I got drunk, (thus the "lack of maturity") and got a tongue ring. Article 92. Failure to obey a direct and lawful order. It's nothing "serious," and yet, still shows a willful disobedience of an established rule. The tongue ring has since been removed, and will not be replaced. Beyond that, for the past 3 years, my record has been excellent. E1-E5 in less than 3 years, consistent Early Promote evals. Junior Sailor of the Quarter, Junior Sailor of the Year, Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal, not one single disciplinary action ever taken before this. Hopefully, this will reflect in my favor, and help to offset the bad mark of an NJP. Then again, as I said, I have no experience with disciplinary action, or how it might affect my plans, except that if I'm sent to NJP, I will not be allowed to go to Iraq to finish my enlistment as an Individual Augmentee to the Army or Marine Corps. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience, gentlemen. I truly appreciate it.

x SF med
09-06-2006, 18:07
You risked your career for a tongue ring?
Just drop and move Norfolk to Okinawa.

Irishsquid
09-06-2006, 19:40
Duly noted. While it's not a "serious" offense, so to speak, it does show a lot of stupidity. I took a stupid risk...I got caught, and now I'm prepared to accept the consequences. On the other hand, I'm not going to give up on my dream, because of a moment of absolute stupidity. I will still pursue Special Forces, with all due vigor. Once again, thank you for your help, gentlemen.

CPTAUSRET
09-06-2006, 19:54
Most of the QP's here know that I have been the subject of 2 Article 32 investigations, I was cleared each time, but I think it cost me in the long run!

I threw a POS off the top of a bunker in VN, 1966; it was the third time I had caught him asleep on guard duty. I would do it again, and it wasn't for something as ludicrous as a "tongue ring"!

Best of luck to you, but I have no sympathy, seems like a stupid a$$ thing to do!

Irishsquid
09-06-2006, 20:00
Best of luck to you, but I have no sympathy, seems like a stupid a$$ thing to do!

I don't ask for sympathy, and wouldn't accept it if it was given. I have no problem earning my own way, and working just as hard as I have to in order to attain my goals. I've never quit anything yet. I just needed to find out about that waiver, since the gentleman I spoke to from 20th Group didn't seem to know.

Was the tongue ring stupid? Absolutely. And I have no excuse for it. I can not go back and undo what I did...all I can do is work hard enough to make up for it.

I'm going to try to get some chow and secure for rack ops before I go on watch. You gentlemen have yourselves a great evening.

Monsoon65
09-06-2006, 20:15
I threw a POS off the top of a bunker in VN, 1966; it was the third time I had caught him asleep on guard duty.


That's all you did? You must have been in a good mood that day; that loser got off light!

CPTAUSRET
09-06-2006, 20:19
I don't ask for sympathy, and wouldn't accept it if it was given. I have no problem earning my own way, and working just as hard as I have to in order to attain my goals. I've never quit anything yet. I just needed to find out about that waiver, since the gentleman I spoke to from 20th Group didn't seem to know.

Was the tongue ring stupid? Absolutely. And I have no excuse for it. I can not go back and undo what I did...all I can do is work hard enough to make up for it.

I'm going to try to get some chow and secure for rack ops before I go on watch. You gentlemen have yourselves a great evening.


It would seem as if you did not care for my response. So be it!

That response came from my years in uniform (20 years active duty) as a senior NCO, CW3, and O. As stated I did a few dumb things, and I never rose above 03 because of it. There is always a price to pay if you choose to pick and choose which rules you obey!

NousDefionsDoc
09-06-2006, 20:24
When I was a Sluggo, Richmond Nail once told me, "I wouldn't have a troop on my Team that didn't have at least an Article 15." So I went out and got me one.

It wasn't for a "tongue ring" - I got mine for some manly shit. But then again, I was never a Squid.:)

Get your 1Sgt to square it for you with the XO. Then go get a gross of steel wire brushes and start scrubbing rust to square it with the 1Sgt (or whatever you squids call them). Offer to do Quarterdeck on Christmas and New Year and tell him that you realize your relief for extra duty hasn't been born yet.

Dude, getting NJP'd for a tongue ring is gay. Look - :p

CPTAUSRET
09-06-2006, 20:25
That's all you did? You must have been in a good mood that day; that loser got off light!

The first time I relieved him, wrote him up, and nothing happened, second time I invited to meet me behind the operations tent w/out his shirt, I removed mine and invited him to kick my a$$, he failed miserably. Third time I threw him off the top of a 2 story bunker, really shattered the heck out of his arm!

SF18C
09-06-2006, 21:21
getting NJP'd for a tongue ring is gay.

I agree!

Beg for forgivness, make a deal with the senior NCO and pray the Navy cuts you a break.

Tongue rings...I can't figure out which is worse, getting one or getting riled up about one!!!

Roguish Lawyer
09-06-2006, 22:26
For the civilians on the board . . .

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/questions/njp.html

:o

Irishsquid
09-07-2006, 01:18
It would seem as if you did not care for my response. So be it!

That response came from my years in uniform (20 years active duty) as a senior NCO, CW3, and O. As stated I did a few dumb things, and I never rose above 03 because of it. There is always a price to pay if you choose to pick and choose which rules you obey!

Actually, your response was right on. I was only stating that your lack of sympathy is not something I regard as a bad thing. I don't ask for sympathy, and I certainly don't ask for respect if I can't earn it.

CPTAUSRET
09-07-2006, 07:01
Actually, your response was right on. I was only stating that your lack of sympathy is not something I regard as a bad thing. I don't ask for sympathy, and I certainly don't ask for respect if I can't earn it.

OK, fair enough!

x SF med
09-07-2006, 08:40
Terry-
I'm surprised at you - catching the same guy, asleep on watch in a CZ 3x, and only kicking his ass? Hope he's still recovering.

Sinister
09-07-2006, 12:14
If your chain will give you a summarized (local) filing of the NJP/mast and you are discharged with an honorable you still need to note it on your application to whoever you're applying to. Big boy rules apply. It'll be found out sooner or later (especially if you ever need to apply for a clearance that goes into a background investigation or polygraph).

Sooner or later your new chain of command will know.

I've had several Soldiers (including E6s) that took the summarized and successfully Soldiered out of it to go on to Special Mission Units.

Of course, it's always your right to demand trial by court martial, but that would just reinforce a pattern of poor judgment.

Everyone's authorized 1 dumbass attack. A second notes a pattern and failure of corrective action.

Good luck, and I mean it.

Irishsquid
09-07-2006, 18:45
What do you mean by summarized/local filing? I'll still be honorably discharged, with an RE code of 1. I really do appreciate all of your help. I have now had my one "authorized" dumbass attack, and will refrain from any stupidity in the future. Hope you all have a great day.

Sinister
09-08-2006, 11:13
You are given the NJP, but it is filed locally (JAG does the preparation, you are served with it by the command, and the command literally keeps it locked in the CO's or XO's safe, locally -- it does not show up in your permanent file, microfiche, or records). You may be suspended from favorable action (Good Conduct Medal, decorations, or promotions) and be barred from re-enlistment until you are discharged. On your PCS or discharge it is shredded, and does not follow or appear in your BUPERS file if you decide you want to re-enlist in the Navy or other service down the road, or if you are recalled from the Inactive Ready Reserve.

Should you screw up again in your current assignment before your separation the CO can activate it and send it to BUPERS for permanent filing, add another NJP or admin/UCMJ action to the first, and administratively separate you for a pattern of misbehavior/misconduct and failure to overcome the bar.

I've shot many rounds across the bow on Soldiers I thought were salvageable who for whatever reason temporarily lost their minds. I don't have to boot a good Soldier for temporary insanity, but there's no doubt in their mind that if they so much as stutter-step marching down the hall they're civilians with a less than honorable in their back pocket.

If they're mature they'll Soldier out of it. One of my Battalion Command Sergeant Majors had a guy pull staff duty every night for two weeks, on top of painting all the stripes in the parking lot with a three-inch wide brush. Everyone saw him, knew what he had done, and thought it was reasonable to keep from being booted. He never strayed again and I believe he retired as an E7.

Tubbs
09-08-2006, 11:47
Speaking from experience, its not so much the NJP that will hurt you as the punishment you receive (i.e. reduction in rank). I got two NJP's while I was in. One was two weeks after I got to the fleet for underage drinking. The second one was right after we got back from Iraq and I caught a friend of mine boondoogling another buddies girlfriend while he was on a beer run. That wouldn't have been too much of an issue except for the fact that the BC decided that weekend would be a good time for a suprise MWR walkthrough and caught me holding him off of the third deck by his throat.
However, neither one invovled reduction in rank and I managed to get the second NJP overturned on review right before I got out becuase of that (if it wasn't severe enough to receive reduc, it wasn't serious enough to rate an NJP).
I'm in the background phase of my application with LVMPD and becuase the NJP's didn't involve being busted down they aren't counting against me and before, while I was pursuing reenlistment in the Army under an 18x contract, I had to write a statement about the incident, but at the time the weren't being held against me. Now I didn't get past MEPS for medical issue that were unbeknownst to me at the time so don't take that part as cannon. Again though, its the punishment that will hurt you more than the actuall NJP.

The Reaper
09-08-2006, 13:45
Tubbs:

We do not treat NJP that way and I recommend that if you are not familiar with the SF application and waiver process, you do not comment on it.

TR

CPTAUSRET
09-09-2006, 05:16
Terry-
I'm surprised at you - catching the same guy, asleep on watch in a CZ 3x, and only kicking his ass? Hope he's still recovering.

I was told his arm would never be the same. He was wearing web gear, his flak vest, and an M-16 slung over his shoulder with his arms crossed over his chest fast asleep, he landed badly (lousy PLF), shatered his arm, which he extended to break his fall, NASTY break!

I don't lose any sleep over it!

x SF med
09-09-2006, 21:26
T-
you ought to sleep better - how many guys did that save? Plenty, even if it was just one. The guy was a Bravo Foxtrot.

Monsoon65
09-10-2006, 22:43
I was told his arm would never be the same. He was wearing web gear, his flak vest, and an M-16 slung over his shoulder with his arms crossed over his chest fast asleep, he landed badly (lousy PLF), shatered his arm, which he extended to break his fall, NASTY break!


Good for him. A nice reminder not to screw off next time. He was probably lucky not to have to also get your foot removed from his ass.

willyjr
09-26-2009, 22:00
I just wanted to get everyone's take on my Article 15. I read all the responses to the previous post. I received a NJP three months before I was discharged from the Marine Corps. I was punished with a reduction in rank from E-4 to E-3 and had a forfieture of pay suspended. Now for the incident leading to the charges. I had a married female in the barracks after hours and when she went to depart at 10AM the Duty SGT stopped her. He called PMO and the Squadron Duty Officer. In my opinion he made a mountain out of a mole hill but I should have been smarter and snuck her out through the side hatch. This occured in Okinawa Japan, which I am sure magnified it. I was charged with article 92? and 107because I lied about her marital status This was in 2004 but since I was discharged shortly after I did not get a chance to "soldier out" of it. I now dream of being an SF soldier I just hope that it will not remain a dream. It really stinks and am sure I will be requesting a waiver for this NJP. Just wanted to get all the professionals opinions on this one.
I think the problem with holding an NJP against someone is the lack of a burden of proof required to discipline someone.

Willyjr

1,000 "at a boys" are erased by one OH S@#T!

willyjr
09-26-2009, 22:06
One more thing gentlemen, if I am not able to get an 18x contract do you think I would be able to go with Ranger or Airborne option and soldier my way out of the NJP and drop an SF packet from there? Thank you in advance for any responses.

The Reaper
09-27-2009, 01:42
If you don't mind me asking, did you know she was married?

TR

Mitch
09-27-2009, 03:32
Guys, back in the days of my youth, it would be safe to say that getting Article 15s in SF was pretty uncommon - but I did get one. Speeding on Chicken Road. Oh Well.

But I would also be safe in saying that about 99% of us in SF did one or two things, Minimum, each month that probably should have gotten us one if we had just been dumb enough to get caught. Thank God.

willyjr
09-27-2009, 03:47
If you don't mind me asking, did you know she was married?

TR
Yes I knew she was married. There is a lot to the story I just wanted to keep it short and take the gig for being a dumb a##. She was in a contract marriage and she is now my wife. I was an outstanding Marine to that point and I did not have any idea what to do. Did not know if they would try and get me for adultery or what.

But I would also be safe in saying that about 99% of us in SF did one or two things, Minimum, each month that probably should have gotten us one if we had just been dumb enough to get caught. Thank God.


Yes I was dumb enough to get caught. We all know how some things make a man lose his mind. Temporary insanity. I am referring to love and beer.

Willyjr

Perception is reality

Utah Bob
10-05-2009, 09:51
In my opinion he made a mountain out of a mole hill

Funny a lot of guys who get AR 15s say that.


I should have been smarter and snuck her out through the side hatch.

NO. You should have been smarter and never had here in there in the first place.
:rolleyes:

willyjr
10-05-2009, 12:12
Utah bob,

Touche sir, you are correct there is no excuse for an NJP I broke the rules and I paid for it.

Willyjr