View Full Version : NSA eavesdropping program ruled unconstitutional
CPTAUSRET
08-17-2006, 11:38
This sucks
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/17/domesticspying.lawsuit/
All we need, right now!
No worries...just another case of the ACLU Judge shopping....it will get reversed. (I Hope)
Funny how the article states the lawsuit was filed by civil rights organizations, lawyers, journalists and educators and not soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Wonder why?
x SF med
08-17-2006, 11:53
No worries...just another case of the ACLU Judge shopping....it will get reversed. (I Hope)
Funny how the article states the lawsuit was filed by civil rights organizations, lawyers, journalists and educators and not soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Wonder why?
5-0
I agree. If you have nothing to hide from, you shouldn't be worried. Amazing how the guilty conscience defies logic in these arguments - they aren't looking for cheating husbands and wives, but Terrorists - there are algorythyms behind the wiretaps that just bypass most of the conversations.
Goggles Pizano
08-17-2006, 11:56
...and when we are attacked again what will the left's rallying cry be? "WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT!!!!"; "CONNECT THE DOTS!".
Liberals make me sick. :mad:
CPTAUSRET
08-17-2006, 11:59
5-0
I agree. If you have nothing to hide from, you shouldn't be worried. Amazing how the guilty conscience defies logic in these arguments - they aren't looking for cheating husbands and wives, but Terrorists - there are algorythyms behind the wiretaps that just bypass most of the conversations.
Appeasement, and capitulation!
Bury their head in the sand; how in the f do they think GB foiled all those plots to rain down death and destruction!
incommin
08-17-2006, 12:56
I think most Americans forget the large number of socialist and communists that we have among us. These are the people who see America as the cause of the ills in the world. They are also the ones who use our own laws and Constitution to make the government look bad and harm the country. I hope this decisions is turned around on an appeal.
CPTAUSRET
08-17-2006, 13:02
I think most Americans forget the large number of socialist and communists that we have among us. These are the people who see America as the cause of the ills in the world. They are also the ones who use our own laws and Constitution to make the government look bad and harm the country. I hope this decisions is turned around on an appeal.
Youu covered it pretty well!
I also hope it is overturned.
Monsoon65
08-17-2006, 13:34
What makes me beat my head against the wall, or want to beat an ACLU lawyers head against the wall, is that this isn't aimed at the normal Ma and Pa America. The NSA isn't listening into the grandkids chatting with gramma and granpa about Christmas. They don't have the time and resources for that.
The 'Judge' was a Carter apointee.
Has anyone ever seen a Carter or Clinton apointee EVER rule in the gov's favor concerning the GWOT?
Clearly a political ruling.
Dark Knight
08-17-2006, 14:17
It is amazing how common individuals have no concept of how intel is gathered. Once they hear of some infraction of rights they go screaming for legal action. If you notice who are requesting legal actions are organizations that have run-ins with the government consistently. These organizations are worried about what might be recorded when they converse among their colleagues about the government negatively. But, of course these organizations and individuals are the same that will complain why the government didn't know about an incident before it happened. Go figure. :confused:
, or want to beat an ACLU lawyers head against the wall,
Yes.
This ruling is ridiculous. Politics as usual...
Alchemist
08-17-2006, 19:56
Here's a quote in the cnn.com article from ACLU executive director Anthony D. Romero :
Today's ruling is a landmark victory against the abuse of power that has become the hallmark of the Bush administration.
I can make allowances for the ACLU if they truly believe, as I don't, that this program is an abuse of power. I don't like their stance but I can, with effort, understand it. I've linked the Washington Post article, below, because it gives a slightly more extensive quote. I didn't get really mad at the ACLU until I read this:
He called the ruling "yet another nail in the coffin of the Bush administration's strategy in the war on terror...."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/17/AR2006081700650.html
I'm sure that, in his own mind, Romero is acting from the staunchest patriotism. (He is, after all, protecting the nation against the principal enemy he is able to identify.) Of course, so was Colonel Nicholson in The Bridge on the River Kwai, whose obsessive interpretation of his patriotic duty led him (spoiler alert!) to work for the enemy and, eventually, to side against his countrymen. The main difference is, I doubt Romero will ever have a "What have I done?" epiphany to redeem him.
Today, the 6th Circuit granted the government's motion for a stay of Judge Taylor's order pending appeal.
Order (http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/internet/documents/Order062095_000.pdf).
I agree with all of you that the NSA program as initially intended and enacted caused me no anxiety whatsoever.
I am also concerned however, with the establishment of an executive branch privilege that could be used against the American people at some unknown point in the future with this as its legal precedent.
We shouldn't forget the major attempts (under a recent Democrat President) to enact very restrictive gun control measures; or the unwillingness of the judiciary to forbid the seizure of firearms from law abiding citizens when civil order has disintegrated (New Orleans - Hurricaine Katrina). :(
"Thoſe who would give up Essential Liberty to purchaſe a little Temporary Safety, deſerve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin (or possibly Richard Jackson) 1738, 1755, or 1759
The executive privilege asserted in this case is relatively narrow. There's an argument (rejected by the District Court) that the AUMF gives POTUS coverage for this program, thus placing him in category I (Youngstown - Steel Seizure case), not category III as many people (and the court) generally believe. There are also several bills working their way through Congress that would explicitly clear this program, although I'm sure whatever law gets passed would be challenged on constitutional grounds. I don't believe the program violates the Fourth Amendment.
I'm no lawyer, and I wouldn't even have a shot at clerking for a U.S. District Court judge, but this opinion is very strange, very light on analysis. If you detest judicial activism, this opinion would drive you nuts.
I'm currently researching this case from a 4th Amend perspective for a paper, so I should have more detailed answers in a couple of months.:)