View Full Version : Why was the 5th Moved?
Aoresteen
08-07-2006, 13:22
I've tried searching QP and Google but can't find anything on this. My questions is, why was 5th Group moved to Campbell in 1988? Then two years later 3rd Group was re-activated at Bragg. Why wasn't 3rd Group just activated at Campbell?
I was just wondering. Thanks!
Matta mile
08-07-2006, 14:19
Hi Tony,
Thats a great question. I was there with the 5th up till about three years before the move. The rumor mill at that time had it that they wanted the 5th to work more with the 160th and that the 7th was going to be pulling back its Panama FOB onto Bragg.
Anyway, hopefully somebody has the staright story.
thanks
Chet
Nobody has the straight story. But there are a bunch of pieces of stories floating around that anybody can make into just about any story they want.
By the mid-80s 5th Group was spending a bunch of time at Ft Bliss. Even had 5th Group Forward there. 5th Gp (FWD) had all the modified vehicles and were the base instructors when the battalions rotated through for their yearly training.
The world on the street was "We were going". In our off time we were cruising around town checking the neighborhoods, homes, prices, etc.
A few problems with Bliss were ranges. TRADOC covered most of Bliss and the rocket guys had White Sands. Any of the long range vehicle movements took a ton of coordination.
5th Group was working with aviation but mostly stuff like CH-47s, heavy lift, long range. Little birds were fun to play with but hard to sling a jeep under them.
Then BANG, one day, It's not Bliss it's Campbell and 3rd Battalion is staying at Bragg to become 1st of the 3rd.
Only the Army can do stuff like that.:D
Pete
Team Sergeant
08-07-2006, 15:05
We moved in 1986 not 88, I was one of the first to arrive at Ft Campbell.
I heard it was a very "political" move to say the least. If you find out why we moved I'd sure like to know......;) (then again any place away from Fayettenam was a good place in those days.)
NousDefionsDoc
08-07-2006, 16:56
We got tired of them moping around Bragg looking like somebody kicked their dog, so we kicked them off.:p
Plus, we already had all their Gore-Tex...:lifter
Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.
Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.
I remember when 1/10th was issued one of the first generations of Goretex, it was either 1983 or 1984. They were ordered to wear it strictly in the field and not in garrison. IIRC the order was an attempt to prevent jealously amongst the legs or at least that was the ostensible reason provided.
x SF med
08-09-2006, 07:09
Holy Crap!!!!!! You guys were issued Goretex? I didn't find that until I was out. Got the 'first generation' stuff. Worked great for a few years, then became 'plugged up'. For the seams you had to buy and apply a Goretex seam sealer. The Second generation GT had all the seams taped.
12B-
At Devens in 84, we had all the cool Gore-Tex (light and heavy), G-T boots, Eco-tats, ponchos, polypro(2 full systems - light and heavy) - all courtesy of Natick - and they let us wear it whenver we wanted, all the legs were MI students, support, medical or ARNG units.:munchin
Guys,
I asked a friend who was pretty much involved in the move at that time. You would have thought that a move to Bliss would have made much more sense because of the B-500 ops going on out there at the time. Even we in the 7th used to use that area for our desert training--basing out of Oro Grande and training between there and Cloudcroft in NM...which has a LOT of desert before you ever reach the mountains of the Lincoln National Forest area.
Anyway, according to my friend, everyone thought the move was coming to Fort Bliss...but they obviously didn’t have the vision and foresight of the CSA (GEN Wickham).
Several staff studies were done for the CSA and they all came back with the western US as the location to move 5th SFG. On each one, he told them that was the wrong answer. When one finally came in that said Campbell, he took it.
The rest of the story is that the CSA had supposedly promised the communities of Clarksville/Hopkinsville a “brigade-sized unit” and there were houses going up all over the place in preparation for it. However, when the 1500 or so 5th SFG ffolkes showed up versus a typical brigade of nearly three times that number, the most common question in the community was “where is everybody else?” They had gotten an O6-level unit as promised--but not the numbers of troops in an Infantry brigade, which is what the communities were expecting. It was quite a let-down for them.
Anyway, that’s the story as I heard it and has been generally passed down through the ages of ARSFC…
Richard
PS-Old Coe Lake DZ near White Sands was not a soft landing, either.
Aoresteen
08-10-2006, 12:37
I remember when 1/10th was issued one of the first generations of Goretex, it was either 1983 or 1984. They were ordered to wear it strictly in the field and not in garrison. IIRC the order was an attempt to prevent jealously amongst the legs or at least that was the ostensible reason provided.
It was 1983. I stll have my GT boots! ;)
BMT (RIP)
08-10-2006, 18:16
Several staff studies were done for the CSA, who was GEN Wickham then. They all came back with the western US as the location to move 5th SFG. On each one, he told them that was the wrong answer. When one finally came in that said Campbell, he took it.
The rest of the story is that Wickham had supposedly promised the communities of Clarksville/Hopkinsville a "brigade-sized unit."
They got an O6-level unit, but not the numbers of troops in an infantry brigade, which is what the communities were expecting. It was quite a let-down for them.
BMT
x SF med
08-11-2006, 09:37
It was 1983. I stll have my GT boots! ;)
Still got mine too - the brown, JB looking ones, with the soles that have as much traction as ice when they're wet. On another thread we talked about the unkillable Chips....
Still got mine too - the brown, JB looking ones, with the soles that have as much traction as ice when they're wet. On another thread we talked about the unkillable Chips....
Damn straight x_..... in a few days, I'll have access to a digital camera. Not that I know how to use it or anything. Still, it is a pretty good one. We'll have to go back to the old thread/s concerning the Chips and post some pics. :)
One more thing. I have nooooooo clue what GT boots are. After that description. I am ok with that.
12B-
At Devens in 84, we had all the cool Gore-Tex (light and heavy), G-T boots, Eco-tats, ponchos, polypro(2 full systems - light and heavy) - all courtesy of Natick - and they let us wear it whenver we wanted, all the legs were MI students, support, medical or ARNG units.:munchin
OK. Got it. GT boots were Gore Tex. I bought a pair in 1981. Still have them. It's the deal between the first generation and second of Gore Tex. I still have the first generation. There were huge improvements made. I just poked around on Google, searching the GT site, looking for some dates and history. Either, I skimmed it too fast or what I was looking for wasn't there. In any case. I bought my set of GT rain gear in the mid 70's. Seems to me by the early to mid 80's is when the second generation came out and was much better. THAT is what you all got. :mad: I had to be constantly soaked when I was in. LOL
Okay guys. You all fail poli sci 101 or "How sxxx really takes place in the USA". There was one reason for the move and the same reason that Ft Campbell will never close.
The reason..drum roll, please; FOUR(4) Senators!!
Snaquebite
05-10-2007, 14:30
I remember when 1/10th was issued one of the first generations of Goretex,
I have a gortex jacket we were issued in the late 70's at Devens issued to our team by Natick. Not military looking at all more of a forest green and pretty light weight, but we wore the hell out of them under our tops.
x SF med
05-10-2007, 15:01
I have a gortex jacket we were issued in the late 70's at Devens issued to our team by Natick. Not military looking at all more of a forest green and pretty light weight, but we wore the hell out of them under our tops.
SGM- you mean the 'green bean' don't you? All the FSTIII guys wore the hell out of them, funny though, theirs never had any little burn holes or burr cuts in them, and always looked so clean... They still issued them in '84, and 6 months later we got the 'new' camo lightweights that had that nasty slick finish on them.
Snaquebite
05-10-2007, 17:07
you mean the 'green bean' don't you?
Don't remember it being called that but that's a better color description. Still have and wear mine.
The Old Guy
05-12-2007, 22:16
I have a gortex jacket we were issued in the late 70's at Devens issued to our team by Natick. Not military looking at all more of a forest green and pretty light weight, but we wore the hell out of them under our tops.
We were issued those light weight green jackets in Tolz. We also worn them under our OG 107s. They were handy in the Spring to help shed the rains.
Mine is now far too small to wear now.
Okay guys. You all fail poli sci 101 or "How sxxx really takes place in the USA". There was one reason for the move and the same reason that Ft Campbell will never close.
The reason..drum roll, please; FOUR(4) Senators!!
I presume you mean two from TN and two from KY?
Ambush Master
05-25-2007, 21:26
Try complying with our simple request and make your belated FIRST POST here: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13758&page=10
You did fill in your profile, but you missed step #2!!
Later
Martin
I presume you mean two from TN and two from KY?
You pass!
Mosby Raider
06-24-2007, 18:00
I was on the Strat Recon committee and we were issued the lightweight green Gortex and brown Gortex boots in 1984.
Most of the story is correct.
5th was slated to move to Bliss.
Gen Wickham, as the CoS, wanted another unit so Campbell would survive a base closing commission.
SF resisted this move to Campbell as Bliss is similar to the aor and we were really getting serious (finally) about desert warfare.
Wickham raised the anty and said he would approve the 18 series enlisted MOS/officers branch on the condition 5th moved to Cambell.
ERGO 5th at Cambell and we have our own branch.
Still friggin criminal in my opinion.
As in most major decisions, there were a number of factors:
1 - Yes, Ft. Campbell sits like a CH-47 Chinook on the state line between Kentucky and Tennessee. See map. That means two state's worth of Senators and Representatives.
2 - Ft. Campbell was the home of the 160th SOAR, newly designated as such from the former "Task Force 160," and would be working with them not only for operations, but also for development of doctrine and procedures.
3 - It is easier to take a complete, well established SF Group with full TO & E and move them to Ft. Campbell. That maintains unit integrity, and puts them in an immediately deployable mode as soon as they are wheels down. Standing up 3rd SF Group at Ft. Campbell would be far from the Ft. Bragg / JFK Center flagpole, and with the pipeline (personnel and logistics) and school house far away. Better to stand up a new group in the shadow of the schoolhouse and have the personnel and assets expertise to spin them up to C1 quickly.
4 - Whether or not "becoming a branch" factored into the mix, I don't know. I know SF as a separate branch was being seriously discussed as early as 1982, so it seems a long time to have had any effect on a base change in 1986.
5 - Ft. Campbell does have a tradition of airborne operations, dating back to the gliders, and airborne of the 101st Airborne Division. It has at least nine drop zones not being used for much since the 101st went leg in the 1970's.
6 - There are plenty of Uwarrie type off post training areas, including Land Between the Lakes just off the western end of the reservation.
Dozer523
04-01-2009, 14:29
The "up the ante" rings pretty true.
I was at SWC when the 18 series Officer's Branch was being briefed to anyone who would listen or, in some cases probably didn't make it to the door before BG Guest or Col Potter (I think then MAJ Shaw was pretty active in this issue) locked it. I heard in the hallway that it would be hard to overcome VCSA LTG Thurman's objection, "Special Forces as a Force Multiplier already works, so you don't have that argument. No one is going to approve a new Officer Branch to ensure a few officers have a Professional Growth path.":boohoo
No one, apparently, unless he was the CSA and wanted to make Ft Campbell, happy.:cool: Bet GEN Wickham is a Kentucky Colonel!:D
"5 - Ft. Campbell does have a tradition of airborne operations, dating back to the gliders, and airborne of the 101st Airborne Division. It has at least nine drop zones not being used for much since the 101st went leg in the 1970's."
The 101st became LEG in 1968... I was at the "A" company NCO Club at Bien Hoa when LTG Zais' (CG 101 AB) jeep passed. All of the SF NCOs came to attention and saluted but didn't render the customery "All The Way, Sir".
General Zais looked pained and said, "All The Way, Gentlemen", To which the NCOs replied, AIR MOBILE? General"!
The next week, the 101 was redesignated 101 Airborne (Air Mobile) thanks to General Westmoreland.
OK, let's not get too far off-topic, but ...
In late 1971 and early 1972, the 101st withdrew from Vietnam and returned to the United States. It was the last United States Army division to leave the combat zone in Vietnam Seventeen Congressional Medal of Honor awards were given to individuals from the 101st. Vice President Spiro T. Agnew and Army Chief of Staff General William C. Westmoreland welcomed the 101st home during official homecoming ceremonies on 6 April 1972 at Fort Campbell.
THE POST VIETNAM ERA
The Screaming Eagles were at 20 percent of their authorized strength on homecoming day due to an early separation date program, the transfer of soldiers to their units to complete their tours of duty in Vietnam, and an extensive leave policy. A recruiting program called "Unit of Choice" enabled the 101st to reach sixty-five percent by December. Rebuilding combat readiness became the major goal of new training programs. On 24 January 1973, elements of the 3rd Brigade participated in the largest airborne operation held by the 101st since their return from Vietnam. Exercise QUICK EAGLE I tested the combat readiness of the 3rd Brigade, and subsequent QUICK EAGLE exercises tested the rest of the Division. By June 1973, the 101st was again combat ready.
101st AIRBORNE DIVISION (AIR ASSAULT)
The 101st underwent significant identity changes during 1974. On 1 February, the 3rd Brigade announced the termination of its parachute status, and Major General Sidney B. Berry, Commanding General of the 101st, authorized the wearing of an airmobile badge. When the airmobile designation was dropped on 4 October that same year, the Division added the Air Assault designation. Graduates of the Air Assault School each received the newly designed air assault badge, which officially became an Army qualifications skill badge on 20 January 1978, retroactive to 1 April 1974 for any soldier in an air assault unit who had demonstrated qualifying professional knowledge and skill.
http://www.lzsally.com/sally2/archives/history_of_the_101st_airborne_di.htm
And an authorative rendering of the 101st Airborne Division immediately post Viet Nam (the author is brilliant soldier, an excellent author, strong, handsome, good in bed, and is kind to small animals):
http://airassault.bizhosting.com/PostRVN.htm
Anyway ...
the 101st was 1/3 Airborne and "on status" until 1974. I was on that last mass tactical jump, but unlike many others, I did not steal my T-10 reserve nor cut a scarf from my canopy, since, as a Pathfinder, I stayed on status after the rest of the Division went leg.
Dozer523
04-01-2009, 21:16
(the author is brilliant soldier, an excellent author, strong, handsome, good in bed, and is kind to small animals): . Anyone we know?:D
I'm a little concerned that "good in bed" and "kind to small animals" was mentioned so closely together. :D
Dozer523
04-01-2009, 21:38
I'm a little concerned that "good in bed" and "kind to small animals" was mentioned so closely together. :D
TARGET!
CEASE FIRE.
Driver, move out.
Oh now that is funny!
Bill Joyner
05-12-2009, 14:52
Most of the story is correct.
5th was slated to move to Bliss.
Gen Wickham, as the CoS, wanted another unit so Campbell would survive a base closing commission.
SF resisted this move to Campbell as Bliss is similar to the aor and we were really getting serious (finally) about desert warfare.
Wickham raised the anty and said he would approve the 18 series enlisted MOS/officers branch on the condition 5th moved to Cambell.
ERGO 5th at Cambell and we have our own branch.
Still friggin criminal in my opinion.
In addition to what Pat said;
There was some rumor when we were moving that Wickham had planned on putting the new 3rd Ranger Bn at Campbell but because 1st SOCOM stationed them at Benning instead, Wickham directed Sudeth to find him a unit to put at Campbell.
Once we got to Campbell, the cable guy came to put cable drops in the team rooms. Since we had knocked down walls to make the team room area big enough, what used to be three rooms was now one. The cable guy was putting a drop in each space there used to be a seperate room. When we asked why he was doing this he said the contract was to put cable in each of the rooms in the RANGER battalion barracks.
Bill
Another instance of our visionary planners and well-spent tax dollars at work. :rolleyes:
Richard's $.02 :munchin
I was part of the move to Ft Campbell in '88.
Was intel support guy for 3d bn '86-'88 (with 5th Group MI Company), and we understood that we would eventually go to Ft Bliss, TX. At the time A-1-5 was there and ran the Group's Desert Training Program (DTP) out of Donna Anna Range Camp.
1st Bn was moved to Ft Campbell, however I don't recall when nor why.
As summer of '88 approached we got word that 5th Group was relocating to Ft Campbell. 3d Bn was to remain at Ft Bragg, and would later become 1st bn/3d Group. I was one of four intel analysts who supported 3d bn ... was one of two who was single at the time. The two married guys got to stay at Ft Bragg.
Nobody was particularly happy about the move. Didn't make any sense to move us from one wooded post to another, when we still had to ship our vehicles westto the desert for training.
Word later was that GEN Wickham, before retiring, had promised Ft Campbell and surrounding community a brigade-sized unit.
Ft Campbell later grew on me, and I ended up raising my family and retiring here
Team Sergeant
06-23-2009, 09:37
I was part of the move to Ft Campbell in '88.
Was intel support guy for 3d bn '86-'88 (with 5th Group MI Company), and we understood that we would eventually go to Ft Bliss, TX. At the time A-1-5 was there and ran the Group's Desert Training Program (DTP) out of Donna Anna Range Camp.
1st Bn was moved to Ft Campbell, however I don't recall when nor why.
As summer of '88 approached we got word that 5th Group was relocating to Ft Campbell. 3d Bn was to remain at Ft Bragg, and would later become 1st bn/3d Group. I was one of four intel analysts who supported 3d bn ... was one of two who was single at the time. The two married guys got to stay at Ft Bragg.
Nobody was particularly happy about the move. Didn't make any sense to move us from one wooded post to another, when we still had to ship our vehicles westto the desert for training.
Word later was that GEN Wickham, before retiring, had promised Ft Campbell and surrounding community a brigade-sized unit.
Ft Campbell later grew on me, and I ended up raising my family and retiring here
You sure about A-1-5? That was my company.....
I was one of the first 5 guys on the ground at Ft. Campbell, 1986.....
My memory is fuzzy, as I get older ... I thought at the time that A-1-5 was out there. I may be mistaken. We did have guys out there, though. I do recall that during one of our DTP trips (I think in '89), 5th Group ran a display for one of the post special events.
Team Sergeant
06-23-2009, 09:52
My memory is fuzzy, as I get older ... I thought at the time that A-1-5 was out there. I may be mistaken. We did have guys out there, though. I do recall that during one of our DTP trips (I think in '89), 5th Group ran a display for one of the post special events.
Might have been an A-Team.... we were pretty much stood down until families moved, houses were purchased, kids placed in school, etc etc etc
I was single and sat on my arse waiting to go back to work and dodging every flipping lawn mowing detail I could....
I really didn't want to move to Ft Campbell. I was single at the time and loved being at Ft Bragg ... was close to home (Virginia) and to the beach.
It was my understanding that 5th Group had been offered Clarksville Base - nice area and isolated - but that it was turned down. Not sure why, but the rumor at the time was that some of the 'powers that be' wanted 5th Group to be seen.
It pissed us off that we had to take part in 101st Abn Div parades and change of command ceremonies, and post runs. Were you part of that 101st change of command (where we were the last unit in formation ... next to the post dentists) where we stood in formation during that massive thunder storm? The one where we had to "pass in review" and march through the resulting foot of mud before the post reviewing stand? That was fun.
101st tried to impose 'blue book' rules on 5th Group ... How to set up LBE (2 ammo puches, 2 canteens, no 550-cord), until COL Bowra put a stop to it.
The memories ..
Dozer523
06-23-2009, 11:51
IIt pissed us off that we had to take part in 101st Abn Div parades and change of command ceremonies, and post runs. Were you part of that 101st change of command (where we were the last unit in formation ... next to the post dentists) where we stood in formation during that massive thunder storm? The one where we had to "pass in review" and march through the resulting foot of mud before the post reviewing stand? That was fun.
101st tried to impose 'blue book' rules on 5th Group ... How to set up LBE (2 ammo puches, 2 canteens, no 550-cord), until COL Bowra put a stop to it.
The memories .. Memories in DEED! Well. . . I never had to march in the parade -- for one of two reasons (1) when we marched to the parade ground I seemed to bounce when the SGM looked my way . . . But I did always get to / have to watch from the bleachers. The parade I remember, we were last in the order of march, that is true. But it was a nice touch that the Division Band switched to The Ballad as we "piss in your shoe". LTC Shaw was leading as the Deputy Group Commander.
We got tired of them moping around Bragg looking like somebody kicked their dog, so we kicked them off.:p
Plus, we already had all their Gore-Tex...:lifter
I thought is was because of all the deployments 7th SFG was doing in Central America. There wasn't any Per diem left for 5th SFG to buy MRE'S for the Desert:D
Amusing thing at the time ('80s-'90's) was the reaction you'd get from someone when you told them you were in 5th Group. Was most often a scrunched face and "ew!"
Not alot of fun being a desert unit. Nowadays, however, who isn't?
Dozer523
06-24-2009, 08:58
Amusing thing at the time ('80s-'90's) was the reaction you'd get from someone when you told them you were in 5th Group. Was most often a scrunched face and "ew!" Not alot of fun being a desert unit. Nowadays, however, who isn't?
As in . . . Why TF would ANYONE want to go THERE?!!:D ("Be careful what you learn to do, someone might make you do it":()
The Old Guy
07-13-2009, 10:13
Memories in DEED! Well. . . I never had to march in the parade -- for one of two reasons (1) when we marched to the parade ground I seemed to bounce when the SGM looked my way . . . But I did always get to / have to watch from the bleachers. The parade I remember, we were last in the order of march, that is true. But it was a nice touch that the Division Band switched to The Ballad as we "piss in your shoe". LTC Shaw was leading as the Deputy Group Commander.
LTC Michael Shaw the 3/5 Cdr when I arrived. Great guy! I remember the CofC ceremony (1988 or 1989) with MG Peay, the outgoing 101st CG. The entire division was standing tall in battle rattle and we stood out there on the far left flank, laughing, telling jokes, scratching our butts and watching 101st guys fall like flies. We were wishing that the powers to be had not accepted the invitation to dance in the ceremony.
5th Group won the D&C and Best Looking unit award for that CofC. HAHA, too funny as we were in Berets and everyone else was in Turtle shells. Was there ever a doubt about who looked the best?
We did do one (?) division run (SLOW) but I do not remember doing a second. We did our own thing after that, or maybe it was just my team/company what abstained.
Fort Campbell was a nice place, too much Divisional influence though on a unit they had no control over.
LTC Michael Shaw the 3/5 Cdr when I arrived. Great guy! I remember the CofC ceremony (1988 or 1989) with MG Peay, the outgoing 101st CG. The entire division was standing tall in battle rattle and we stood out there on the far left flank, laughing, telling jokes, scratching our butts and watching 101st guys fall like flies. We were wishing that the powers to be had not accepted the invitation to dance in the ceremony.
5th Group won the D&C and Best Looking unit award for that CofC. HAHA, too funny as we were in Berets and everyone else was in Turtle shells. Was there ever a doubt about who looked the best?
We did do one (?) division run (SLOW) but I do not remember doing a second. We did our own thing after that, or maybe it was just my team/company what abstained.
Fort Campbell was a nice place, too much Divisional influence though on a unit they had no control over.
I remember doing a Div pass in review during "Week of the Eagles" in 1991 (?) in the POURING rain punctuated eventually by thunder and lightning...which had no noticeable impact on the length of the G.O.'s speeches. From where I was standing you could hardly see the reviewing stand. Any time the formations had to change position there was an audible groan as new areas of cold, wet uniforms hit skin. We did the pass in review and all I remember is that, as a cherry 2LT, I had an itching feeling in my back as we slipped and slid across the parade field in ankle deep mud... wondering when the guy behind me was going to fall and stick his bayonet in my back.
Which unit on Ft Camblell did NOT have to pass in review?... 5th SFG (naturally formed in a mass formation (on the left flank) so as to minimize the drill and cerimony gyrations...). IIRC, they were also already formed up on the parade field when the rest of us yahoos marched on (also minimizing the amount of D&C required)
At that time I remember thinking a.) Do G.O.'s have any common sense at all? b.) Hey those berets look cool. c.) SF is a better place to be than "Division"..
And the headline in the local paper said "The 101st Lightning Rods" IIRC.
Old Guy, thanks for jogging the memory.
......Which unit on Ft Camblell did NOT have to pass in review?... .....
A/3/5th didn't do anything above the battalion level during 93 & 94.
You have to be on post to play.
And on the 5th Group Guys at Bliss. All we in 3rd battalion called them was 5th Group Forward, knew they maintained the desert jeeps at Bliss and the only ones we ever saw was Nicewander (sp?) and one of his A/Is teaching survival.
I remember that chevy nicewander built using old 2.5 ton duece axles. I think it made the army times or something like that didn't it??
You had to be careful getting into that truck, if you saw a burlap bag (or several) ....you can bet your booty he had some rattlers in it.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I like to do....go hunt rattle snakes....NOT.
I think he had a run in with several .22 cal bullets that put him to rest. Can't remember the details of the story, but it wasn't pretty from what I barely remember.
Combat Diver
05-15-2010, 08:23
I was on ODA 535 C/1/5 at Bragg when 1st Bn moved in 86'. A Co (-)(B tm and two ODAs, 511 and 512 if I remember correctly) went to Ft Bliss, TX. HHC, B & C Co (with the other 3 A Cos ODAs attached to B & C Co) went to Campbell in 86. I missed the BN move that summer as about 15 of us single soldiers on teams were stuck in language school at the time. We finish CLS there at Bragg at the end of 86 and then went out to Campbell. I had heard that a active "Airborne Unit" was promised to Campbell for politicial reasons.
CD
Everyone missed the main reason they moved.
NO POST SUPPORT CYCLE!
Just kidding but at least that was a perk from what I was told.
I remember that chevy nicewander built using old 2.5 ton duece axles. I think it made the army times or something like that didn't it??
You had to be careful getting into that truck, if you saw a burlap bag (or several) ....you can bet your booty he had some rattlers in it.
Yeah, yeah, that's what I like to do....go hunt rattle snakes....NOT.
I think he had a run in with several .22 cal bullets that put him to rest. Can't remember the details of the story, but it wasn't pretty from what I barely remember.
Yep, He met up with some very bad guys and took quite a few rounds. Not sure if they were 22 caliber or not though.
Last hard class
05-15-2010, 23:03
Deleted
I was on the Strat Recon committee and we were issued the lightweight green Gortex and brown Gortex boots in 1984.
I still have my brown boots. Kind of raggedy now, but still the most comfortable boots I've ever had. (Once you get them broken in.)
I've tried searching QP and Google but can't find anything on this. My questions is, why was 5th Group moved to Campbell in 1988? Then two years later 3rd Group was re-activated at Bragg. Why wasn't 3rd Group just activated at Campbell?
I was just wondering. Thanks!
OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened.
5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs.
5th Gp was slated to move to Ft. Bliss. There was huge political pressure to move to Ft. Campbell from a couple of Senators and at the same time there was talk that another group (3rd) was going to be stood up. Anyway, these Congressmen from Kentucky wanted their very own SF Group at Ft Campbell. COL Guest was trying to get people out of Bragg and get an ADVON (5th Gp FWD) to Bliss thinking that if he had people already down there it would be easier for his arguement in that money had already been spent sending personnel down and standing people up. At the time ODA 581 and 582 were AKA (B-500 (Second Edition) Not to be associated with Blank Frank Tony and the first edition that got kicked out of Australia).
Anyway, COl Guest (he may have may BG by then I can't remember) managed to get us (B-500) orders and had put us on stand by a couple of days earlier telling us that when we got orders...get off of Bragg ASAP. We did. The day a couple of us left people were trying to recall the orders and stop us from leaving. We were prepared and didn't answer our phones.
We got to Bliss and ended up becoming A/1/5 (ODAs 511 and 512).
The rest of 5th Group ended up at Campbell. The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell. Since 3rd group was a NEW unit, it was authorized new barracks wherever it ended up. However it 5th stayed at Bragg, it was going to be stuck in the old WWII baracks. So it was determined that 5th would move to Ft. Campbell which would give them new facilities and 3rd would be stood up at Bragg and a new compound would be built.
Fast fwd to 1989/1990. LTC Kinsinger hated that we were part of his BN but he didn't have immediate access to mess with us. Even though we as a Co. owned more training area at Ft. Bliss than Ft. Campbell in it's entirety. This was mostly due to some old fashioned SF dealing and a really good S-4 guy named SSG Tom Beach. We also had an agreement with BLM to use thousands of acres in New Mexico (and Oro Grande) for Desert Survival. In addition, we had our own ranges that were totally under our control that had a 180 degree shooting house on it as well as linear targets, to include a bus. We were working on getting a 737 body when we were shut down...but that''s another story.
Anyway, SGM Clough and Kinsinger made a deal with us (They lied to us) and talked us into submitting 4187's to PCS to Campbell on the guarantee that we wouldn't PCS for 18 months. Orders started showing up in 3 months.
If you check official records, you will find that A Co. (the guidon was at Ft. Bliss) was never officially moved from Bliss. They simply essentially PCSed all personnel out of the unit.
And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to Campbell
SFSalRet08
09-20-2010, 00:08
OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened.
5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs.
5th Gp was slated to move to Ft. Bliss. There was huge political pressure to move to Ft. Campbell from a couple of Senators and at the same time there was talk that another group (3rd) was going to be stood up. Anyway, these Congressmen from Kentucky wanted their very own SF Group at Ft Campbell. COL Guest was trying to get people out of Bragg and get an ADVON (5th Gp FWD) to Bliss thinking that if he had people already down there it would be easier for his arguement in that money had already been spent sending personnel down and standing people up. At the time ODA 581 and 582 were AKA (B-500 (Second Edition) Not to be associated with Blank Frank Tony and the first edition that got kicked out of Australia).
Anyway, COl Guest (he may have may BG by then I can't remember) managed to get us (B-500) orders and had put us on stand by a couple of days earlier telling us that when we got orders...get off of Bragg ASAP. We did. The day a couple of us left people were trying to recall the orders and stop us from leaving. We were prepared and didn't answer our phones.
We got to Bliss and ended up becoming A/1/5 (ODAs 511 and 512).
The rest of 5th Group ended up at Campbell. The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell. Since 3rd group was a NEW unit, it was authorized new barracks wherever it ended up. However it 5th stayed at Bragg, it was going to be stuck in the old WWII baracks. So it was determined that 5th would move to Ft. Campbell which would give them new facilities and 3rd would be stood up at Bragg and a new compound would be built.
Fast fwd to 1989/1990. LTC Kinsinger hated that we were part of his BN but he didn't have immediate access to mess with us. Even though we as a Co. owned more training area at Ft. Bliss than Ft. Campbell in it's entirety. This was mostly due to some old fashioned SF dealing and a really good S-4 guy named SSG Tom Beach. We also had an agreement with BLM to use thousands of acres in New Mexico (and Oro Grande) for Desert Survival. In addition, we had our own ranges that were totally under our control that had a 180 degree shooting house on it as well as linear targets, to include a bus. We were working on getting a 737 body when we were shut down...but that''s another story.
Anyway, SGM Clough and Kinsinger made a deal with us (They lied to us) and talked us into submitting 4187's to PCS to Campbell on the guarantee that we wouldn't PCS for 18 months. Orders started showing up in 3 months.
If you check official records, you will find that A Co. (the guidon was at Ft. Bliss) was never officially moved from Bliss. They simply essentially PCSed all personnel out of the unit.
And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to Campbell
Shadar,
Thanks for the very interesting story. I have read all the posts here about why 5th Group moved. Lots of different opinions, but interesting reading nevertheless. This is one of the many reasons why I love this PS site. Lots of information and suggestions to everyone. Every day I learn something new about SF.
Thanks
SFSalRet08
Dozer523
09-20-2010, 03:25
OK.... This may get a little long but here is pretty much how it happened. . . . And that.....is the real story of 5th Group moving to CampbellShadar thanks for the info. I remember going to Bliss for 6-8 weeks was "Fun, Fun, Fun 'til her Daddy took the T-Bird (or DMVS) away!
Rat Patrolling along the Mexican border, climbing at Waco Tanks, the pretty girls in the "safe house" up in the hills.
mojaveman
09-20-2010, 09:32
Everyone missed the main reason they moved.
NO POST SUPPORT CYCLE!
Just kidding but at least that was a perk from what I was told.
That's what I heard too. Basically, that it was done for morale.
greenberetTFS
09-20-2010, 10:50
SFSalRet08,
That's a pretty cool avatar,I've often stated that in this forum.......... :D Could never understand why Berry said "win" when he should have said "earned"...............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
SouthernDZ
09-20-2010, 11:38
The reason 5th moved to Campbell and not 3rd was a matter of logistics. The Senators won and A group was going to end up at Campbell.
Shader, don't forget that GEN-Ret Wickam wanted a group in his neighborhood too (he retired to Kentucky).
I also remember Prince Philip's staff saying they could never get the training areas they needed which was a damnable lie. So, like you said, 5th Grp moved from the deserts of Bragg to the deserts of Campbell instead of the deserts of Bliss.
SFSalRet08
09-20-2010, 23:46
SFSalRet08,
That's a pretty cool avatar,I've often stated that in this forum.......... :D Could never understand why Berry said "win" when he should have said "earned"...............:confused:
Big Teddy :munchin
GBTFS,
Yes not to get off topic here, but when I saw yours I was like "I like that, WE Dare you....." When I first registered to the PS I had thought about nothing but find a great avatar. I saw yours and thought "WOW", and after searching I found this one. 7th Group flash and all. And after reading many different posts especially the latest one about The Yarborough and the resale of it. Many QP’s (as well as I) are disgusted about the fact that these new kid are not respecting the knife or the beret, and selling their gift. They think the beret is just a piece of head gear that is company issued. I can remember our “Doning of the beret” night dinner, where we got to officially put it on of the first time. A sense of pride and respect is what I felt. To be in such an elite unit whit such great warriors was the highlight of my career. So yes “Earned not Issued” is and has been what I have always believed. Also about the avatar I was kind of afraid that you might be upset that I am also using the same image. I hope you are not.
Thanks
SFSalRet08
andygoodman
10-01-2010, 10:39
ya, selling your knife? i didnt think anybody would do that. that is rediculous. does anybody know what happened to that guy after he got busted?
dpkdavis
12-28-2010, 23:22
You guys make me feel young of all the talk about before the move. I got to
5th in 1990 and there today !!
?authority
12-29-2010, 04:54
x
.... 5th Group was a Desert Group. We had recently (within a year or two) moved from Smoke Bomb Hill to over by Pope to some delapitated WWII bldgs...............l
And just to put a date on the move 1st Bn and A/3/5th palletized for Bright Star '83 in the new - old - compound over by Pope.
And just to put a date on the move 1st Bn and A/3/5th palletized for Bright Star '83 in the new - old - compound over by Pope.
Those new-old WWII baracks were our DRF1 lockdown in 1979-80. I was in the 3/325 when we were locked into that area regularly as Jimmy Carter's Rapid Deployment Force, that never happened. I remember thinking how strange it was that the barbed wire fence was oriented to keep us in........
Later, I was assigned to ODA 593 in the same area and remember thinking, boy, they don't think much of 5th GRP around here....what a shit hole!
Then we moved down the road to the old 73rd Armor area by Pike Field, still a shit hole but, when we moved to our current location later on, in I guess 92?
I wanted to go back to Pike Feild....jd
Charlie1bear
01-11-2011, 13:24
I was in 5th Group at the time, never heard of 160th than, I got orders to Bad Tolz Germany and 2 years later returned to Group at FCKY. I was told Gen. Wickham told Geneneral Westmoreland - former 101st Cdr in Viertnam that there would be and always wil be an "Airborne" unit at FCKY. We drew the short straw.
Charlie1bear - check your PMs
from what I was told (and i was a young pup at the time) was it was both: the CSA wanted 5th at FCKY and the senators did too. 5th (FWD) was being moved to FBTX on the sly. 5th said they were setting up a desert warfare school there, but in reality they were slowly but surely moving their assets to FBTX and setting up house. I was someone's brat at the time, so that's why I'm familiar with the story. Among many others about and from the group guys there. Does anyone know if it was Nicewander that opened a mud bogging track off of highway 54?
from what I was told (and i was a young pup at the time) was it was both: the CSA wanted 5th at FCKY and the senators did too. 5th (FWD) was being moved to FBTX on the sly. 5th said they were setting up a desert warfare school there, but in reality they were slowly but surely moving their assets to FBTX and setting up house. I was someone's brat at the time, so that's why I'm familiar with the story. Among many others about and from the group guys there. Does anyone know if it was Nicewander that opened a mud bogging track off of highway 54?
Not sure, I wouldn't put it past him. He did have that chevy truck with I think 2 1/2 ton axels under it.......and rattlers in sandbags in his truck...:eek:
tom kelly
04-25-2011, 16:21
The one and only time I was at Ft. Campbell, was during the SFA picnic that was held there while the SFA Convention was held in Nashville,Tn. in 2005. The area that the 5th SFG had was OLD & outdated, in a word it was and probably still is a shit hole! In my mind there is no doubt that consideration for the group being moved there was POLITICAL, that involved DEALS within congress and the political powers in and around Clarksville, Tn. SOMEONE and probably more than a few; made a-lot of money from the decision to move the group there. The Politicians in Congress and in a good part of the USA are sickening. Regard's, tom kelly
Guys,
I asked a friend who was pretty much involved in the move at that time. You would have thought that a move to Bliss would have made much more sense because of the B-500 ops going on out there at the time. Even we in the 7th used to use that area for our desert training--basing out of Oro Grande and training between there and Cloudcroft in NM...which has a LOT of desert before you ever reach the mountains of the Lincoln National Forest area.
Anyway, according to my friend, everyone thought the move was coming to Fort Bliss...but they obviously didn’t have the vision and foresight of the CSA (GEN Wickham).
Several staff studies were done for the CSA and they all came back with the western US as the location to move 5th SFG. On each one, he told them that was the wrong answer. When one finally came in that said Campbell, he took it.
The rest of the story is that the CSA had supposedly promised the communities of Clarksville/Hopkinsville a “brigade-sized unit” and there were houses going up all over the place in preparation for it. However, when the 1500 or so 5th SFG ffolkes showed up versus a typical brigade of nearly three times that number, the most common question in the community was “where is everybody else?” They had gotten an O6-level unit as promised--but not the numbers of troops in an Infantry brigade, which is what the communities were expecting. It was quite a let-down for them.
Anyway, that’s the story as I heard it and has been generally passed down through the ages of ARSFC…
Richard
PS-Old Coe Lake DZ near White Sands was not a soft landing, either.
James Adrian Guest had something to do with it as well. I was his 2 and he was involved in alot of 'things' like giving the flash to everyone and going to the tab, the 18-MOS/CMF which I still think is a dumb idea because nobody has a real future over E8/Major unless they get lucky, and the move of 5th to Campbell instead of Bliss or Huachuca. Both were looked at but, obviously, not chosen. And yes, Old Coe hurts like Hell.
Roger
nousdefions
06-20-2011, 21:06
...And yes, Old Coe hurts like Hell.
Roger
As did Desperation DZ ;)
SouthernDZ
06-21-2011, 16:58
As did Desperation DZ ;)
...and the assembly point is right over there......3 hours later....:boohoo
Utah Bob
07-12-2011, 13:32
I don't even know why the stripes were moved off the flash.
I don't even know why the stripes were moved off the flash.
James A Guest, hey...ya gotta have a bullet (for the OER) I suppose...
I think it also happened around the time Suddeth (sudden death) wanted to "Clean SF up"...so, that with the old "Viet Nam" stigma, just helped pave the way....
Hell, we even had to get haircuts and trim our mustaches....
Who remembers the formations up on the upper parking lot around Bryant Hall????
He was sending alot of folks to the rear of the formation for "infractions"...which led to more "pre-inspections" before they had to go to the next one...
Thank the good Lord above...I was in O&I and assigned to SWC...so I didn't have the "pleasure" of partaking in such magnificent formations... :rolleyes:
Last hard class
07-12-2011, 16:49
James A Guest, hey...ya gotta have a bullet (for the OER) I suppose...
I think it also happened around the time Suddeth (sudden death) wanted to "Clean SF up"...so, that with the old "Viet Nam" stigma, just helped pave the way....
Hell, we even had to get haircuts and trim our mustaches....
Who remembers the formations up on the upper parking lot around Bryant Hall????
He was sending alot of folks to the rear of the formation for "infractions"...which led to more "pre-inspections" before they had to go to the next one...
Thank the good Lord above...I was in O&I and assigned to SWC...so I didn't have the "pleasure" of partaking in such magnificent formations... :rolleyes:
I got caught up in the one large cluster he put together. The only time I had to wear my dress greens while in Group outside of a school. Our team actually got busted walking to the formation with our hands in our pockets.:D Later the SGM couldn't keep a straight face when he chewed on us.
There were still 4 VN guys are our team when the flash change took place. A little higher than average. We used to joke it would be easier to cleanse their memories when they left. I always thought it was the same shit as the Tab. Don't know how it is now but in the 80's there was a lot of resentment from the guys who were not qualified. And group had a lot of O's that were not qualified. That same attitude applied towards the VN vets. They walked on water to us young team guys. And they could get away with shit because every SGM was one of them. Some people thought that was undermining their authority.
JMO
LHC
I got caught up in the one large cluster he put together. The only time I had to wear my dress greens while in Group outside of a school. Our team actually got busted walking to the formation with our hands in our pockets.:D Later the SGM couldn't keep a straight face when he chewed on us.
There were still 4 VN guys are our team when the flash change took place. A little higher than average. We used to joke it would be easier to cleanse their memories when they left. I always thought it was the same shit as the Tab. Don't know how it is now but in the 80's there was a lot of resentment from the guys who were not qualified. And group had a lot of O's that were not qualified. That same attitude applied towards the VN vets. They walked on water to us young team guys. And they could get away with shit because every SGM was one of them. Some people thought that was undermining their authority.
JMO
LHC
Yup..part of entering "The new Army"...I suppose
C'mon Richard...."And so it goes"...:lifter
I'm here to "Clean you up"....Bwaahaaaahaaa
Well...some could say it worked..:eek:
We had just gotten back from Morroco, I think, and were told we had to stand one of Sudeths huge in ranks class A deals in a few days. Had the team bring their class A's in on hangers for a quick once over. Good to go.
My Medic Denzil Ames (future USASOC CSM) forgot his tie on the day of the inspection and one of the guys had long black socks so we tied it around his neck. Looked pretty good...Sudeth never noticed. Little shit like that made crap bearable.
mojaveman
07-12-2011, 17:58
James A Guest, hey...ya gotta have a bullet (for the OER) I suppose...
I think it also happened around the time Suddeth (sudden death) wanted to "Clean SF up"...so, that with the old "Viet Nam" stigma, just helped pave the way....
Hell, we even had to get haircuts and trim our mustaches....
Who remembers the formations up on the upper parking lot around Bryant Hall????
He was sending alot of folks to the rear of the formation for "infractions"...which led to more "pre-inspections" before they had to go to the next one...
Thank the good Lord above...I was in O&I and assigned to SWC...so I didn't have the "pleasure" of partaking in such magnificent formations... :rolleyes:
Hey Glebo,
I remember that the one not to caught by with a questionable looking mustache was CSM Foreman. Getting an ass chewing by him was enough to leave one with a case of PTSD.
Was too young to make a judgement call on COL Guest but do remember a few of the inspirational speeches he gave.
"The Russians are afraid of our Special Forces and will commit an entire divison to eliminating one A-Team."
The actor who played Rambo's former Commanding Officer in the movie reminded me of Guest.
Combat Diver
07-14-2011, 13:58
I remember standing in those formations and our Company Commander (C/1/5)was sent to the rear also.
CD
Utah Bob
07-15-2011, 14:17
Hey Glebo,
I remember that the one not to caught by with a questionable looking mustache was CSM Foreman. Getting an ass chewing by him was enough to leave someone with PTSD.
Was too young to make a judgement call on COL Guest but do remember a few of the inspirational speeches he gave.
"The Russians are afraid of our Special Forces and will commit an entire divison to eliminating one A-Team."
Can't remember the name of the actor but Guest reminded me of Rambo's former Commanding Officer in the movie.
Richard Crenna.
Yup, close resemblance...other than James A. was a bit "fuller"
Here's one for ya....who remembers the "Rake Line SOP"???? When we moved over to the old LAC area from Smoke Bomb Hill...85-86ish?? Oh...and building our good 'ol tm room lockers from that template they come up with...
Couldn't leave the company area untill ya had raked around the company building...the SOP even had which direction the rake lines had to be in correspondence with the company...IE perpendicular from all sides...
I remember standing in those formations and our Company Commander (C/1/5)was sent to the rear also.
CD
I remember the big 5th group inspection by Suddeth. By the time he got through, the formation of people being counseled or relieved behind the formation was bigger than the groups formation.
I also remember standing in the formation where we switched flashes. Went to the formation wearing the old flash, and had to have a beret in our right cargo with the new one to put on at a particular point in the speeches. The speeches were all bullshit, except for the historical account of 5th Group. I remember feeling "in awe" of those that had gone before me and what they had done.
I was in the front row, had press and lots of visitors. I distinctly remember this damn fly landed on my face and crawled around on it for about 10 minutes. SOB finally tried to crawl up my nose and I was finally able to blow him out and off my face.
Combat Diver
09-05-2011, 22:13
I remember the big 5th group inspection by Suddeth. By the time he got through, the formation of people being counseled or relieved behind the formation was bigger than the groups formation.
I also remember standing in the formation where we switched flashes. Went to the formation wearing the old flash, and had to have a beret in our right cargo with the new one to put on at a particular point in the speeches. The speeches were all bullshit, except for the historical account of 5th Group. I remember feeling "in awe" of those that had gone before me and what they had done.
I was in the front row, had press and lots of visitors. I distinctly remember this damn fly landed on my face and crawled around on it for about 10 minutes. SOB finally tried to crawl up my nose and I was finally able to blow him out and off my face.
Shadar,
Another formation we shared in. I was also standing in 1st Bn formation during the flash exchange.
CD
For many years, I thought Ft. Jackson, SC would have been a good choice in a location for a BN of the 5th. One in Campbell, on at Bliss, one at Jackson, (sort of close to Bragg), but not under the flag pole.
For many years, I thought Ft. Jackson, SC would have been a good choice in a location for a BN of the 5th. One in Campbell, on at Bliss, one at Jackson, (sort of close to Bragg), but not under the flag pole.
Ft.Bliss would have been the ticket, especially when only ADA was there(87-2004) as all of the huge manuever area was unused and all of the small arms ranges always open.
Radioman
09-21-2011, 16:20
Last Hard Class
I was there early 80s. There was talk of moving the 5th but got out before everything went dow. Look down because I was at CSP not a team or look down for not being on a team. Was given an assignment no choice. Lot of BS then from lots of people. In fact spent 10 months in the field one right after another in 82 just to get away.
Dozer523
09-22-2011, 19:51
Ft.Bliss would have been the ticket, especially when only ADA was there(87-2004) as all of the huge manuever area was unused and all of the small arms ranges always open.Climbing at Waco Tanks, cruisin' the border in DMVS's. Pretty Texas girls who couldn't wait to teach you how to do the two-step (Dance . . . shad-dup, you:D). Being out so far from the city lights the sky just lit up with stars. Knowing what's really at that spot where New Mexico makes the right turn to the west. Juarez when it was cool.
Climbing at Waco Tanks, cruisin' the border in DMVS's. Pretty Texas girls who couldn't wait to teach you how to do the two-step (Dance . . . shad-dup, you:D). Being out so far from the city lights the sky just lit up with stars. Knowing what's really at that spot where New Mexico makes the right turn to the west. Juarez when it was cool.
I wasn't thinkin' what you were thinnkin'....I was thinkin' the two step after a "home cooked" Mesican meal....from one of those little hole in the wall restaurants..:D:D
Last hard class
09-23-2011, 09:22
I wasn't thinkin' what you were thinnkin'....I was thinkin' the two step after a "home cooked" Mesican meal....from one of those little hole in the wall restaurants..:D:D
You mean one of those in Juarez where you order the carne asada and then watch them pull the meat out of the cupboard?:D
LHC
^^^^^^ Yup, dat be it...just hope to God ya don't have to do PT the next mornin'....:eek::eek: (better carry extra socks):D
Paradude54
11-22-2011, 20:31
I got to 5th Group in late 89, so they'd already moved, sort of. 3rd Bn was still striped pretty bare of equipment and some friends had warned me that was not the place to be, so when I was in processing and they said that they had one opening for 2nd Bn I damn near jumped out of my skin to get and did.
I hated Campbell from the minute that I got there. We were the red headed step children of the post, since the 101st CO was also the post commander and at least at the time they had one that didn't care for SF at all. Getting ranges was an exercise in begging, since about the only way that a lot of it happened was by promising some foreign weapons training to the 101st or something of that sort. And it never made any sense at all to me for a desert unit to be stationed on the TN/KY border.
Hey Glebo,
I remember that the one not to caught by with a questionable looking mustache was CSM Foreman. Getting an ass chewing by him was enough to leave one with a case of PTSD.
Was too young to make a judgement call on COL Guest but do remember a few of the inspirational speeches he gave.
"The Russians are afraid of our Special Forces and will commit an entire divison to eliminating one A-Team."
The actor who played Rambo's former Commanding Officer in the movie reminded me of Guest.
Ah, "James Adiran Guest", known by afew brave souls as "Jimbo"... once. I worked for him twice and it was interesting both times. Shepherd I wasn't impressed with. Booth was a solid professional. He ended up with 1st I think. Forrest K was one tough SOB though.
I don't even know why the stripes were moved off the flash.
I asked and Guest said "I won't have the colors of a defeated nation on my group flash". To Hell with history and tradition I guess. I kept mine sewn under the black one til I left.
I got to C/1/5 in Dec 88. I was told that 5th was put at FCKY by the Abn Mafia, meaning that the CG of 18th ABN Corps at Ft Bragg didn't want to lose a Group.
Since the 101st is also 18th ABN Corps, 5th was simply moving from one 18th ABN Corp post to another. That's how it was explained to me anyhow.
I got to C/1/5 in Dec 88. I was told that 5th was put at FCKY by the Abn Mafia, meaning that the CG of 18th ABN Corps at Ft Bragg didn't want to lose a Group.
Since the 101st is also 18th ABN Corps, 5th was simply moving from one 18th ABN Corp post to another. That's how it was explained to me anyhow.
Could be. I was pushing for Huachuca when anyone asked. At least it fit the mission profile.
fasteddie565
02-11-2012, 10:23
Okay guys. You all fail poli sci 101 or "How sxxx really takes place in the USA". There was one reason for the move and the same reason that Ft Campbell will never close.
The reason..drum roll, please; FOUR(4) Senators!!
Bing Bing Bing,
We have a winner!
Another formation we shared in. I was also standing in 1st Bn formation during the flash exchange.
CD
I was in 2nd Bn during the flash exchange.
This is like one of those "Why did the chicken cross the road?" questions. ;)
Q: Why was the 5th moved?
A: Because they could.
Richard :munchin
This is like one of those "Why did the chicken cross the road?" questions. ;)
Q: Why was the 5th moved?
A: Because they could.
Richard :munchin
Sorry Richard...It was smore like "because they were told/ordered"...;)
This is like one of those "Why did the chicken cross the road?" questions. ;)
Richard :munchin
to get to the Range:eek:
Congo336
01-30-2013, 15:53
This was a great trip down memory lane. I was on 594 and attending O&I when the big move hit. Those of us in 3/5 became 1/3 and we were supposed to change flashes but few did while we were still in O&I. Once I got back and 594 had become 334 we did a little training and bala-bing bala-bang, off to Desert Storm we ran. There sure were a lotta surprised folks when we showed up there living in the parking garage while 5th hung out in the bat cave.
PS, anyone vouch for me being there? I was the Team Sgt on 334 in the Storm, but had spent the previous few years as the Eng or Asst Opns on 594 before the Bragg to Campbell move. I've been on this site now and again since 2007 and just noticed I'm listed as an asset...an ass maybe, but I was also an 18-series whody-who.
Bill Easterling
This was a great trip down memory lane. I was on 594 and attending O&I when the big move hit. Those of us in 3/5 became 1/3 and we were supposed to change flashes but few did while we were still in O&I. Once I got back and 594 had become 334 we did a little training and bala-bing bala-bang, off to Desert Storm we ran. There sure were a lotta surprised folks when we showed up there living in the parking garage while 5th hung out in the bat cave.
PS, anyone vouch for me being there? I was the Team Sgt on 334 in the Storm, but had spent the previous few years as the Eng or Asst Opns on 594 before the Bragg to Campbell move. I've been on this site now and again since 2007 and just noticed I'm listed as an asset...an ass maybe, but I was also an 18-series whody-who.
Bill Easterling
Bill Check your PM's