View Full Version : NFL 2006
Roguish Lawyer
08-02-2006, 10:10
Training camps are underway . . . discuss the NFL here.
Goggles Pizano
08-02-2006, 11:53
No joy in Eagles camp. No point in discussing them. :p
Go Bears!!!!
'Skins are loaded, baby! As long as Brunell stays upright, they are going all...the...way. Coach Joe found out his offense was antiquated and went out and did something about it. Snyder continues to sign every big free agent check placed before him, knowing he is going to continue to add seats and raise prices at that monstrosity FedEx Field anyway.
Who will challenge in the NFC East? McNabb has lost weight and is motivated for a big year, but who will he throw to? The first time TO is open and Bledsoe doesn't throw to him, will TO just trot back to the huddle and benignly say, "Dude, I was open"?:rolleyes: Maybe the Giants will take the Division, but hopefully Eli will replicate his brother's playoff record.
It sure is weird seeing LaVar in a Giants uniform. I hope he plays well and has a good year, except on Oct. 8 and Dec. 30.
Palmer and the two Johnsons (Chad and Rudi) look set to have a big season. Defense has been upgraded this year with the addition of free agents Sam Adams and Dexter Jackson, and a lot of the younger guys are going to start to come into their own. Let's just hope Palmer manages to make it through this season without another injury. I don't think I would be emotionally able to see that happen again :( Oh, and let's try to not have anymore knuckleheads get arrested. That would be nice.
Radar Rider
08-02-2006, 15:56
Who I wish to see go the whole way? Miami Dolphins.
Who do I think will take it all? The Cowboys. I think that T.O. fits their system, and will excel regardless of how any fans feel about him.
Goggles Pizano
08-03-2006, 11:15
Who I wish to see go the whole way? Miami Dolphins.
Who do I think will take it all? The Cowboys. I think that T.O. fits their system, and will excel regardless of how any fans feel about him.
RR I give the cowgirls six weeks before the mouth has them fistfighting on the sidelines.
bberkley
08-03-2006, 12:22
I traditionally root for the Dolphins, having grown up watching them with my granddad. However, with Ricky on IR in the Cannabis Forgiveness League, it remains to be seen if their 2nd year RB can give them the ground game you need to be successful in the league.
Plus, with the 'Fins signing Marcus "Ron Mexico Jr." Vick to a free agent contract, I have less interest in their success this year.
I think the Cowboys will be pretty good, and it will be interesting to see if the Steelers can repeat.
The departure of Edgerrin James will certainly dent the Colt's attack, but not so much that they can't go all the way this year. Also, the addition of the best clutch kicker in the NFL will certainly come in handy this year in the playoffs. Looking for the Colts to go 12-4 and finally with the Super Bowl.
Radar Rider
08-03-2006, 17:14
RR I give the cowgirls six weeks before the mouth has them fistfighting on the sidelines.
Ain't gonna happen. T.O. came back in the Superbowl to help the Eagles even on his broken leg. The Cowboys will do it again in 2007.
I have been a Giants fan for 35 years, this year they have a shot to actually go all the way.
TO is already causing trouble, won't be long before Parcells lowers the boom.
Skins will be tough, doubt Dallas will be.
As for Eaglets, Donvan has nobody to throw too, seems like old times.
Raider fan here.
so far,.... it don't look too good.
Aaron Brooks is satan and can't run a H.S. offense.
Weazle23
08-27-2006, 09:36
I'm looking for the Seahawks to have another great season and return to the Super Bowl to meet the only other NFL team I've ever liked, the Steelers, again. But this time I hope it's a game/win a fan can be proud of and the Seachickens coming out on top.
Ummmmm, y’all can’t detect the putrid smell wafting out of DC, can you? It wouldn’t be so bad if all the other teams in the division didn’t look so darn good, especially the Girls! Here in DC, one is not allowed to despair and write off the season until the first regular season loss, so I will sit tight. It helps that I get up every day and write on the chalkboard 500 times, “Gibbs’ Super Bowl teams won one exhibition game, and Steve Spurrier’s team looked unstoppable in Osaka.”
Looks like the only joy in DC this fall will be watching the love triangle between Mr. I Love Me Some Me, The Tuna, and Mr. I Am The Owner, But You Can Call Me The General Manager. I love a good “test of will”! Is there enough room in Big D for all the corpulent egos?
SITH, it appears your concerns about the Raiders' QB position have been addressed.:D
x SF med
08-28-2006, 18:36
My Jets looked like crap last weekend - well, we're used to it. think exploded C-Rat pears would motivate them?, or a John Wayne Bar?
Well I'm a denver fan, so I'll have to say that Denver's first-team defense was dominant at stretches in the preseason. Not great but they worked it. I'll have to see how the game went against Houston.
I was surprised to see that Willie Middlebrooks, was among the 12 players waived as the Broncos got their roster down to 75 players. Lets see how the WR work this year.
The biggest thing they need to do is get a new place kicker!! Jason Elam field-goals go down every year. His legs just are not the same. Mike Shanahan read the writting on the wall. You need a guy go to guy for kicks.
Broncos all the way! I forsee a 13 and 3 season, taking the AFC West (5-1 I'll give the Chiefs at home a chance) Ya gotta have hope kid!!!! MTNGoat, I agree about Elam...he looked pretty poor in the pre-season games I caught. But he does hold (tie) the NFL record for the longest field goal!
I feel sorry for Houston, they passed on R. Bush with thier #1 pick and with their season I don't think they will have their first win until week 9!
Sep 10 Eagles
Sep 17 @ Colts
Sep 24 Redskins
Oct 1 Dolphins
Oct 15 @ Cowboys
Oct 22 Jaguars
Oct 29 @ Titans
Nov 5 @ Giants
Nov 12 @ Jaguars
Nov 19 Bills
Nov 26 @ Jets
Dec 3 @ Raiders
Dec 10 Titans
Dec 17 @ Patriots
Dec 24 Colts
Dec 31 Browns
Cleveland may have the same reocrd as 2005 (6-10), but because of their tough schedule will be much improved over last year and be ready for the playoffs in 2007. Four names you're going to be familiar with on Sportscenter this season: Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards, Leigh Bodden, Kamerion Wimbley.
GO BROWNS!
Okay with week two done...I might have over stated the Bronocs...but I still think the Texans are doomed!
Okay with week two done...I might have over stated the Bronocs...but I still think the Texans are doomed!
I think I have you slightly beat in the overstatement department.:D It's going to be a long season here in DC. That statue Bledsoe sucks; yet, the Skins allowed him to stand back there all day and pitch the ball all over the damn place. In the battle of geezer QB's, he sure looked a hell of a lot better than Brunell.
The Skins are a flawed franchise, and it starts all the way at the top with the boy wonder. Players and coaches don't come to DC to perform, they come to get paid. They build up big reputations and resumes elsewhere, then come calling to Dan Snyder for a fat payday to set them up forever. At least Snyder is consistent when it comes to latching on to folks on the downside of their careers. He has gone into business with, and invited into his box for last Monday night's game, that has-been Hollywood freak Tom Cruise and his equally freaky fiance Katie Holmes.
VSVO,
Look at the bright side next week you got Houston! Denver gets to go to the New England Patriots!!!! On Sunday Night Football...so as to be seen by all!
Mike Shanahan if you are reading this feel free to swap out Jake the Mistake for Jay Cutler! Shanahan to all those calling for Cutler: Stop it (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5979244)
SF18C, great point. Hopefully, they can beat one team from Texas. Glad to know there is hand wringing in other NFL cities. That's what I love about the NFL, every year, teams' fortunes get turned completely upside down.
LOL, are you guys already screaming for Cutler? Could he be the most NFL-ready QB to come out of the draft? And Jake the Snake, he's always good for an interception at the most inopportune time.
Mike Shanahan if you are reading this feel free to swap out Jake the Mistake for Jay Cutler!
Mike needs to get his head out of his 4th POC. The Mistake needs to GO. He is Done, need to work on getting Cutler ready.
They play like crap on Sunday. The was a Baseball score 6 to 9.
Goggles Pizano
09-19-2006, 10:58
Might it not be best to allow Cutler to see how the offense should NOT be run in order to better prepare him for the future?
Might it not be best to allow Cutler to see how the offense should NOT be run in order to better prepare him for the future?
He has seen enough already...heck I can send him some video! How about we chalk up this year to letting the rookie cut his teeth, think about Rex Grossman from the Bears!!! If he can't hang we get a pro in the off season, how about a Manning? I’d even entertain going back to the Cardinals’ for Warner! Do you think the Cards would take Jake back?
These totally terrible interceptions are killing them! When the O can't score it just means Champ and Lynch have to work that much harder!!!!
Oh when will Elway's offspring be eligible!!!!!
So the Broncos have entered the Jay Cutler era (finally).
I guess that 13-3 season I was hoping for is shot but a wild card spot is still obtainable.
West Division W L T Pct PF PA Home Road Div Conf Strk
Chargers 9 2 0 .818 353 216 5-0 4-2 3-1 7-2 W5
Chiefs 7 4 0 .636 229 205 5-1 2-3 3-1 3-4 W2
Broncos 7 4 0 .636 195 165 3-2 4-2 3-2 7-3 L2
Raiders 2 9 0 .182 132 219 2-3 0-6 0-5 1-7 L4
The Chiefs spoiled my Thanksgiving!
So how is your team doing so far?
GO BRONCOS...die hard fans never give up!
I am looking forward to seeing Cutler play. Hopefully, Shanahan can now unleash his offense since he no longer has to compensate for the Mistake.
Same thing with the Skins. Gibbs finally parked the No. 8 car, so we can now get a glimpse of the future - and Campbell looks good. As for the rest of the team and organization, well, that's another matter. With playoff hopes effectively quashed, the only thing left to do now is savor the soap opera. Tom Friend's article (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=2672668) is rocking Redskins Park. Granted, the source is one disgruntled player. But it provides some juicy details, made all the better given this is a marketing-driven organization so protective of its image. The radio beat guy thinks the source is Adam Archuleta, "the highest-paid safety in NFL history" now relegated to punt protection duty - who allowed a punt block in the Carolina game.
Browns fan - 'Nuff said.
Hopefully the idiot talking heads and pissed off fans can calm down and not call for Romeo's head - and more importantly I hope Randy Lerner stays the course.
Might need a QB, but the OL is a sieve. I must say it is easier being a Cleveland fan from outside that city.
Defense has some good days so far, and if we had some Offense to compliment the D we'd be on our way.
Problem is this mess could not be fixed overnight, and there are fans who do not realize that.
Oh well. GO BUCKEYES!!!
NousDefionsDoc
11-30-2006, 13:41
The Chargers will win the SB.
AGaillard
11-30-2006, 13:44
I was VERY optimistic about the Steelers this season. Even after Ben's offseason accident and medical issues. Charlie Batch came out and won for us, so I thought all was well. Now it is time for Charlie to come off the bench, play the rest of the season, and start getting Ben totally healthy now for next year. If Davenport is not the one, go find a big back to compliment Parker. They need to start devastating opposing defences again. Last weeks loss to Baltimore:(
So the Broncos have entered the Jay Cutler era (finally).
Two differences from last year:
No Kubiak. No full time consistent RB.
Coach had little choice, probably. But it gets worse from here if Cutler cannot handle the blitz and rookie mistakes. Good QB, and hopefully he can overcome the two things I began this post with.
Good Luck!
The Colts will win the SB.
Only if the Playoffs are over by 1 January, I am conviced that Baby New Year hates Manning! :p
I think it will come down to the Charger or Ravens (even thought they got owned tonight) on the AFC side and the Bears or Cowyoys from the NFC...but I think the AFC will stomp the crap out of the NFC.
Radar Rider
12-01-2006, 14:53
As a life-long Broncos fan, I've learned some patience and faith. I think that Jay Cutler will fire up the entire franchise, Mike and/or Tatum Bell will fire up the running game, and Javon Walker will achieve the success he is so fully capable of. They'll definitely make the playoffs; it's too soon to predict the Superbowl.
As a life-long Broncos fan, I've learned some patience and faith. I think that Jay Cutler will fire up the entire franchise, Mike and/or Tatum Bell will fire up the running game, and Javon Walker will achieve the success he is so fully capable of. They'll definitely make the playoffs; it's too soon to predict the Superbowl.
Top,
You should see this town. As soon as Shanny announced he dropped Jake the Snake, and is putting in Jay....it's like the 2nd coming of Elway.
I hope the kid does some good. The whole STATE will be watching him through a microscope this Sunday.
As far as the Broncos making it to the SB....I'm gonna have to say, no. They're in too deep of a hole now. They'd be lucky getting even a Wild Card. IMO.
NousDefionsDoc
01-14-2007, 09:23
Well, well - two good games yesterday.
The Saints are looking pretty good. Although I can't believe Sean Payton let them call a pitch play to a rookie with 3 minutes left and up by 3. I bet he doesn't do that again.
And the Colts found defense. If Manning wakes up and realizes he still needs to be playing, they are going to be very tough.
I'm going with the Bears and Chargers today. Hate walking out on a limb...
I'm going with the Bears and Chargers today. Hate walking out on a limb...
Very safe call there Doc, but.....
May "Papa" Halas forgive me.....
Da bears could quite easily loose this game. Granted, Seattle just squeaked by Dallas last week, but Hasselback is playing pretty good, and I'm sure they learned a lot from the week 4 blow out they suffered at the hands of Da Bears.
Grossman just has to keep his head in the game and not make TOO many screw ups. That is the key. Da Bears' Defense is going to be as usual...awesome, but Grossman has to be that Offense leader Da Bears need.
At least the weather in Chi-town is BEARS weather. That could help Da Bears in some sense too.
Radar Rider
01-14-2007, 14:11
Top,
You should see this town. As soon as Shanny announced he dropped Jake the Snake, and is putting in Jay....it's like the 2nd coming of Elway.
I hope the kid does some good. The whole STATE will be watching him through a microscope this Sunday.
As far as the Broncos making it to the SB....I'm gonna have to say, no. They're in too deep of a hole now. They'd be lucky getting even a Wild Card. IMO.
Wow, I sure blew that call (just call me 'Jimmy the Geek'). Cutler did well for a rookie, but the defense fell apart.
The Seahawks are giving the Bears all they can handle, now. IF the Bears win this one, I have a feeling that the Saints will handle them rudely in the NFC Championship Game.
I'm going with the Bears and Chargers today. Hate walking out on a limb...
27-24 Bears, in sudden death OT...with a field goal as the game winner. Talk about a nail biter.
27-24 Bears, in sudden death OT...with a field goal as the game winner. Talk about a nail biter.
I........can........now.........bre.......ath..... ..again............:eek:
Don't you have oxygen on hand? :D Wasn't sure he'd make that field goal but sure glad he did!
That, plus....Da Bears calling time out with 2 seconds left to go in the 4th, giving the Seahawks one more chance for a Hail Mary play, when THEY were content to let the clock run down and go into OT........Buuuuuttttttttt Noooooooooooooo.......Da Bears had to make this a "Cardiac" game.
Also, I'm at 5280 plus, elevation.....air is kinda thin up here. ;)
bandycpa
01-14-2007, 16:14
Sdiver,
Lord knows you've had good training over the past few weeks as far as nail biting is concerned...ex: Which Rex Grossman will show up? Will the same one be here in the second half that started the first half? Can Cedric Benson actually run like a Top 5 pick? Your "football heart" is either in great shape or just on the brink of bursting.
Of course, the only excitement my Dolphins have generated in the past few weeks is how many times Nick Saban can lie before he gets to Alabama.
Bears and Saints next week. Should be a fantastic game.
Bandy
NousDefionsDoc
01-14-2007, 20:02
The Patriots are well coached. Well, three out of my 4 are in.
bandycpa
01-14-2007, 20:29
As much as I hate to admit it, the better team won. When SD started laying the ball on the ground, you could sense that their fight was waning. I even saw Phillip Rivers mouthing "unbelievable" on the bench after Brady hit the big pass play on the game-winning drive. I told the Missus it was over at that point. Unfortunately, I was right.
On the bright side, Colts vs. Pats next week is probably the more entertaining matchup. There are lots of great storylines with this game, and these two teams already have a long playoff history. Should be really good. Wouldn't it be interesting if Vinatieri wins the game for the Colts in the last seconds?
Bandy
NousDefionsDoc
01-14-2007, 20:37
Oh, and Bill Parcells and Jerry Jones suck.
If TO is on the Cowboys roster next year, I'm going to become a Philly Fan.
bandycpa
01-14-2007, 20:47
If TO is on the Cowboys roster next year, I'm going to become a Philly Fan.
NDD,
Do you think Parcells will stick around to help Tony Romo (like he did Phil Simms and Drew Bledsoe early in their careers)?
TO said he made himself available to help Romo any way he could, and that he looked forward to coming back next year. As obvious as the answer to this is, do you think there is ANY chance that TO wants to become a good, contributing, supportive teammate in Dallas?
Bandy
Radar Rider
01-14-2007, 21:16
The Patriots are well coached. Well, three out of my 4 are in.
The Patriots will lose. The Superbowl will be Indianapolis vs New Orleans.
That being said, the REAL Superbowl will be Seattle vs New England. I NEVER pick the winners.
NousDefionsDoc
01-14-2007, 21:33
No. TO is about TO.
As soon as Romo became the starter, Bledsoe should have taken the holding duties - why didn't he?
I want Parcells to stay another year, but TO gots to go. He leads the League in dropped passes for Bob Hayes sake!
bandycpa
01-14-2007, 22:04
As soon as Romo became the starter, Bledsoe should have taken the holding duties - why didn't he?
I don't understand it either. I remember hearing Joe Theismann during an MNF game extol the virtues of having your quarterback being the holder for field goals and PATS (right after the Cincinnati debacle that previous Sunday). At the time, I remember thinking that the punter would be the best choice of holders...seeing as how they are used to receiving long snaps.
Sometimes, the football gods smile on you, and sometimes they give you a slick, new ball to use on game-winning field goal attempts. I'll say this: while watching the games today, (and both of them came down to game-winning field goals), we not only got to know the kicker, but the holder AND long-snapper as well. Field goal units have probably never gotten this much continued love...ever. :D
I believe Parcells will stay. If he doesn't, we'll take him in Miami in a heartbeat.
Bandy
Big Daddy
01-15-2007, 06:32
The Super Bowl will be the Bears vs. the Pats, a remake of 1985. Bears will win, 21-14. You read it here first.
NousDefionsDoc
01-15-2007, 08:19
Saints- Colts. Saints win same score.
Roguish Lawyer
01-15-2007, 11:54
Reggie Bush cannot be stopped. :D
NousDefionsDoc
01-15-2007, 12:15
Reggie Bush cannot be stopped. :D
That Philly corner stopped him pretty good the other day.
While everybody is watching the rook, Deuce is tracking up the yards. He is playing very, very well.
Roguish Lawyer
01-15-2007, 12:34
That Philly corner stopped him pretty good the other day.
While everybody is watching the rook, Deuce is tracking up the yards. He is playing very, very well.
LOL, I'm looking forward to NDD the Eagles fan. I'm sure Casey and Goggles will welcome you with open arms . . .
NousDefionsDoc
01-15-2007, 12:48
I hate the Eagles.
The NFC Championship game is going to be exciting to watch, and I think one for the books.
The AFC championship game.....well....I think NE is going to run away with it.
Roguish Lawyer
01-15-2007, 15:25
I hate the Eagles.
LOL, I have a new friend who lives in LA but has season tickets to the Cowboys and flies there for the games when he can.
As soon as Romo became the starter, Bledsoe should have taken the holding duties - why didn't he?
This may sound contrary to every Special Forces man here, but holding for the kicker is not something you change midseason unless the holder gets hurt (see, I told you this would sound contrary to SF.)
A kicker in the NFL is the most neurotic indivudual on the roster, which is why Parcells hates the SOB's. They despise having anything about the FG changed, including the cologne the long snapper wears, the soap the holder uses on Thursday through Sunday, the amount of kicks he does pregame, the number of Snickers bars he east prior to a game, and of course the most important = THE HOLDER!
Quite frankly the field goal kick is - unlike the college game - probably the safest play of the entire game, so no worries about Romo getting hurt. Fact is that botched kick was a fluke. It rarely, if ever, happens and that kick was closer than a FG.
Still, for Dallas fans that has to hurt watching that over and over on the sports shows all offseason long. Welcome to Browns Town. LOL.
Saints over the Bears: This is not your daddy's Saints, and Rex is not playing against a crappy defensive backfield like the one he saw against Seattle. Too much Duece and Reggie, and everyone forgets that you can RUN against da Bears.
NE over Indy: I am voting for Tony Dungy more than Manning, but NE just beatt the toughest team in the AFC. I like the fact that Brady had a bad game too, which means he is ready to have THAT game to beat Peyton.
NE over NO.
NousDefionsDoc
01-15-2007, 21:51
I don't give a shit. The starting QB has a lot more to worry about than the damn kicker. And the kicker wasn't the problem, the holder was. Boy spent all afternoon running for his life and then they want him to go out there and hold the ball?
Let the kicker pick who he wants to hold for all I care, as long as it isn't the starting QB.
Colts will crush New Orleans 31-14. It is done and already in the books. Don't even need to watch. Swami has spoken.
Z
I hate the Eagles.
There is a picture floating around the internet of a girl wearing a teeshirt at the game who expressed a similar sentiment...ahhh, somewhat more forcefully. :D I'll PM the link, if you think it's ok then you can post it.
NousDefionsDoc
01-16-2007, 20:18
You post it.:p
You post it.:p
Okay then! :D
LANGUAGE WARNING.....
www dot maximonline.com/sports/shine_my_helmet/comments.aspx?id=8921
I hate the Eagles.
Bro, that just means you go directly to a management position in the Level 700 fan section, you sweet talker!!
NousDefionsDoc
01-16-2007, 22:33
Bro, that just means you go directly to a management position in the Level 700 fan section, you sweet talker!!
Nothing personal Brother.;)
bandycpa
02-03-2007, 16:19
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2753109
All of the triplets are in: Aikman, Smith, and now Irvin.
Kind of neat that Michael Irvin and Thurman Thomas got in on the same ballot.
Bandy
Saturday, February 3, 2007
Irvin, Matthews among six voted into Hall of Fame
Associated Press
Gene Hickerson, Michael Irvin, Bruce Matthews, Charlie Sanders, Thurman Thomas and Roger Wehrli were voted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Saturday.
A 40-member panel deliberated Saturday to determine who among the 17 finalists would be enshrined. Two votes were taken, reducing the finalists from 17 to 11 and then from 10 to 6 finalists, who were each voted on individually.
Finalists Russ Grimm, Ray Guy, Bob Kuechenberg, Andre Reed, Paul Tagliabue and Gary Zimmerman lost out in the first reduction vote. Fred Dean, Richard Dent, Art Monk, Derrick Thomas and Andre Tippett lost out on the second reduction ballot.
Art Monk got robbed again. Better numbers than that druggie Irvin and they put him in first. The voting is a joke, I don't understand why everybody listens to Peter King.
bandycpa
02-03-2007, 17:18
No question that Art Monk should be in. He and Irvin had similar styles. Eric Allen wrote on ESPN.com that Monk's supporting cast of Ricky Sanders and Gary Clark probably hurt him because he didn't get as many catches as he could have (Irvin had Alvin Harper).
I remember the night Art Monk got the "consecutive games with a catch" record. No showboating, no taunting, just got the job done. Marvin Harrison reminds me of Art Monk in that manner now...very workmanlike. Each first down (heck, each CATCH) is not a theatrical event with them.
Now, I firmly believe that Irvin has gotten his life together (I'll get hammered for that one, but I stand by it), and I believe that he deserved his HOF selection. Along that line, I hope that Art Monk gets the adulation due him next year when the HOF elects again, for he surely deserves it as well.
While we're at it, Bob Kuechenberg should be in the HOF, too. (Love my Dolphins).
Bandy
NousDefionsDoc
02-03-2007, 21:15
Irvin shouldn't be in IMO.
bandycpa
02-03-2007, 21:18
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Irvin shouldn't be in IMO.
Why?
Gene Hickerson made it! Finally!! And well deserved.
:lifter
bandycpa
02-03-2007, 21:48
Originally Posted by JMI
Gene Hickerson made it! Finally!! And well deserved
It's always good when offensive linemen get some credit. Next year, Kuechenberg will make it, too!
One thing I noticed this year during Sunday Night Football / MNF was, every time Denver played, their O-Line wouldn't do the introductions like everybody else does. They would show the picture, Michaels or Tirico would introduce them, and then would mention that the Broncos O-Line refused to talk to the media (even for introductions). That showed me how together they were...they were in this thing together.
I don't know. That just really impressed me.
Bandy
One thing I noticed this year during Sunday Night Football / MNF was, every time Denver played, their O-Line wouldn't do the introductions like everybody else does.
Bandy
I think that tradition started 15 years ago, about the time Mark Schlerath was playing, and the new guys just continued on with it. That team has some of the best zone blocking schemes around, although I detest thier decades long use of the cut block on the DL and LB's. A solid unit for sure.
My characterization of Irvin was not meant to imply that he didn't deserve to get in, or that one must live the angelic life to deserve a spot in the HOF.
The "problem" with Art Monk is that he steadfastly refused to speak to the media when he played, even during the glory years (yes, the Skins did have glory years once upon a time). He just went out everyday and did his job, and did it well. He also did his thing in the community without telling the whole world about it. So now these so called football journalists are taking the opportunity to exact payback for his insolence towards them by keeping him out of the HOF, or at least making him sweat for a couple of years first.
This esteemed group of writers called the voters seems to be led these days by Peter King. These deliberations are secret, but reportedly each guy stands up and makes a case for his candidate. Well, it's also been reported that Peter King has campaigned against voting for Monk. I know he's a big shot now because he's all over the television, but since when did Peter King become the dean of pro football writers?
bandycpa
02-04-2007, 03:11
Originally Posted by vsvo
The "problem" with Art Monk is that he steadfastly refused to speak to the media when he played, even during the glory years (yes, the Skins did have glory years once upon a time). He just went out everyday and did his job, and did it well. He also did his thing in the community without telling the whole world about it. So now these so called football journalists are taking the opportunity to exact payback for his insolence towards them by keeping him out of the HOF, or at least making him sweat for a couple of years first.
I couldn't agree with you more. It does seem like it has become a popularity contest, and that you have to be a publicity machine (or, at least, have access to one) in order to get in. For ex, I've noticed more and more that you'll have coaches and others publicly lobbying for their guy to get in. Even Coach Shula was lobbying for Kuechenberg to get in. If the HOF was based simply on accomplishments, this wouldn't have to happen.
I heard a couple of stats tonight that made me believe even more that Art Monk should be in ahead of any other receiver going in the HOF (Irvin included, and I believe Irvin deserved to be in). First, he is 6th All-Time in Receiving Yardage (Irvin is 14th). Second, he has more career catches than anyone in the Hall right now. After hearing that last stat, my wife (who, by no means, is a football fan, but who did not have access to the tv remote while this discussion was going on :p ) asked me why Art Monk wasn't in the HOF. All I could say was "Well, he should be". Hopefully, next year, the voters get it right.
Bandy
NousDefionsDoc
02-04-2007, 06:59
Why?
Go to this page and tell me how many times you see his name:
http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/receiving
Not at the top of the column, on the whole page.
Goggles Pizano
02-04-2007, 07:12
Great point of reference NDD. Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, Lance Alworth. Names repeated in just about every catagory. I did not see the "most arrests" or "most allegations of drug usage" on the site though. Perhaps that is where Irvin leads the pack. :rolleyes:
A turd wrapped in a bow is still a turd.
bandycpa
02-04-2007, 07:21
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
Not at the top of the column, on the whole page.
Except for two categories ("Most Games, 100 or More Yards Pass Receiving, Season" and "Most Consecutive Games, 100 or More Yards Pass Receiving"). Granted, those were both from a single season (1995), but they still do indicate that he was among the elite at that time.
Three Super Bowl Championships while being 1/3 of the triplets is kind of hard to ignore. He was a readily identifiable part of the Cowboys image and arsenal during their dynasty (along with Smith and Aikman). The comments from his teammates say that, although he was boisterous, he was also the hardest working guy they had ever seen...a true teammate (unlike what the Cowboys have now with Terrell Owens). Those are the intangible qualities I think that make up for his lack of individual records.
I still believe he belongs in the HOF. Others may have been left out that were more deserving (Art Monk), but I believe that Irvin should still be in.
Bandy
NousDefionsDoc
02-04-2007, 07:28
So, out of history, his name is on the page twice. If you are going to be an undisciplined criminal in your off time, I think you should have your name on the page more than twice to get in. The SB rings are a team achievement - the Hall of Fame is an individual honor.
Art Monk was a much better choice than Irvin.
Irvin got in because he is on tv every weekend.
The Reaper
02-04-2007, 09:35
I have to side with NDD on this one.
Monk was a better player and more consistent.
As noted, Irvin did his best work in a single season (1995), and had personal problems throughout his career. I do not see that making him a better NFL player than Monk.
The most significant thing I noticed from that list was how completely dominant Jerry Rice was.
You might get a good rookie season in, like Randy Moss or Torry Holt, but after the first couple of years and games defending you (and plenty of tape), teams start to figure you out. They never could do that to Rice, even when double coverage was put on him. Sooner or later, even near the end of his career, he was going to burn the D, bad, at least a couple of times per game.
Another point is that receiver awards should be joint awards between the QB and the receiver. The best receiver in the world is going to look bad with a bad QB, he will not get the opportunities to catch the ball. A good QB will make a mediocre receiver look good. Hell, Montana and Young could get me an NFL reception.
The offensive scheme and coaching also affect the receiver. If you have a significant ground attack, or several good receivers to throw too, the individual receiver will not have the opportunity to shine in individual stats.
If this were a fantasy league, and you were the coach, I think most of us would take Monk over Irvin. He was better, more consistent, and had a lot fewer personal problems.
The idea that you have to make sportswriters happy to get in is a travesty. Now we are going to select hall of famers as a popularity contest? Reminds me of "Mr. 3,000".
TR
So, out of history, his name is on the page twice. If you are going to be an undisciplined criminal in your off time, I think you should have your name on the page more than twice to get in. The SB rings are a team achievement - the Hall of Fame is an individual honor.
You have a point, but I think "redemption" after he retired played a part.
Michael Irvin does have some stats that place him in very select company:
3rd in 1000+ yd seasons (Jerry Rice and Steve Largeant)
3rd in 100+ yd games (Jerry Rice and Don Maynard)
10th alltime total receptions
2nd in postseason 100+ yd games (Rice)
2nd in postseason receptions (Rice)
2nd in postseason total yards (Rice)
Owner of 20 Cowboy receiving records
Irvin was not a burner, which most of the guys on the link you provided are. He excelled on 3rd down and in the postseason, which I consider clutch performances. He was a tweener between a burner and a possession receiver. One of the top three clutch WR's in the game. No question.
Cornerbacks at the height of thier game, Darrell Green and Deion Sanders, are still trying to cover Irvin, because they couldn't do it when they played against him.
Irvin's teams did well while he was there, so that played a part. But the man deserves to be in the HOF because when his club needed a play, 90% of the time they went to Irvin and he delivered in a huge way, and the playoffs were a time when he really stepped it up. He holds every Cowboy record for 1st downs made on 3rd and 4th down. Clutch.
Dante Lavelli is a Cleveland Browns legend and one of the best WR's of his era. He isn't on any of the lists you provided and his bust is in the HOF, and deservedly so.
I think the HOF is more than just the stats you bring to the table. If your team made it to 3 SB's, I want to know what your contribution was. When you're 2nd alltime on 3 of the most imortant receiving categories in the postseason, I think you had a lot to do with that teams success.
Clutch.
Heck, if we're talking about WR's who made it into the HOF this weekend, I would say that the Bills Andre Reed should have made it over Monk and Irvin.
He had more receptions, yards, TD's and Pro Bowl appreances than these two, and he went to 4 Super Bowls.
But Darrell Green is eligible for HOF consideration next year, so hopefully the voters have the guts to elect both Monk and Green together. That would be appropriate.
bandycpa
02-04-2007, 12:04
Originally Posted by JMI
Irvin's teams did well while he was there, so that played a part. But the man deserves to be in the HOF because when his club needed a play, 90% of the time they went to Irvin and he delivered in a huge way, and the playoffs were a time when he really stepped it up. He holds every Cowboy record for 1st downs made on 3rd and 4th down. Clutch.
That's the real litmus test, I think. Did he make his team that much better? I believe he did. As JMI said, clutch plays more often than not went to Irvin. The reason why I hated to watch him do his first down celebrations was that...he actually had gotten the first down! Time and time again, he delivered; and it led to 3 Super Bowl Championships.
Having said that, I do agree that Art Monk belongs in the HOF (for many of the same reasons as Irvin does). Should Irvin's off-field happenings be counted against him? I think they were. That's why it took three years for Irvin to get in. As to why Monk isn't in? I can come up with possibilities, but none of them seem just or fair.
Bandy
I stand corrected. Peter King is on record stating his change of position on Monk (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/11/26/hof.receivers/index.html?cnn=yes). That doesn't get him off the hook in my mind. Trash a guy for several years, then change your vote and the guy still doesn't get in. Maybe King wasn't as influential as I thought he was.:rolleyes:
The secret voting process is still bush league. Instead of more insight into the process, we get self-serving babble like this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2753225).