View Full Version : Civilian NREMTP > 18D
Hi all,
First post out side of my introduction here: Click (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=128344&postcount=1194)
I apologize a head of time since I already tried to do a forums search but couldnt find any new information on what I'm about to ask. However I'm a ANG member looking at cross training over to 18D from my current guard job. My civilian job is working EMS in St Louis City, and am finishing up my P license in a few months. I've heard that you must go through the 18D course, however I'm trying to find out if you are able to test out of certain areas of the 18D course if you already are a NREMTP to expedite training.
I know USAF pararescue lets you do this since they award them with a NREMTP license and with the under staffing the emphasis is trying to get trained professionals to their units as fast as possible.
Either way, I'm sure the 18D course will still be more than a challenge ontop of the expanded subject matter that isnt taught in the National Registry curriculum, so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course. But again, any clearification would be great.
Thank you.
Surgicalcric
06-28-2006, 05:33
...I've heard that you must go through the 18D course, however I'm trying to find out if you are able to test out of certain areas of the 18D course if you already are a NREMTP to expedite training.
The answer to your question is here on the forums. Your search criteria may have just been too broad.
Currently there isn't a way for NREMT-P's to "CLEP" out of areas covered in NREMT-P certification courses ie: A&P, ACLS, PHTLS, BLS. It has been discussed before by the Dean of JSOMT-C but it hasnt come to be.
Also you cant cross train into 18D unless you are already hold an 18-series MOS. You can transfer to a NG SF unit and attend the course as a part of the SFQC.
I know USAF pararescue lets you do this since they award them with a NREMTP license and with the under staffing the emphasis is trying to get trained professionals to their units as fast as possible.
Its my understanding, from speaking to many of the instructors at JSOMT-C, that since the Air Force does there own thing with regard to the PJ Medic course that it is not much different, in didactic, than NREMT-P. Having said that, I have found the SOCM approach to trauma different than what I was taught during my paramedic courses. Then again I have only been a paramedic for going on 14 years now... damn I am getting old
Either way, I'm sure the 18D course will still be more than a challenge on top of the expanded subject matter that isnt taught in the National Registry curriculum, so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course. But again, any clearification would be great.
Thank you.
And if you think the 18-D course is a refresher for your medic certification you are going to be in for a rude awakening. Oh, one more thing. NREMT-P is a certification, not a license.
Hope I answered your questions.
Crip
Eagle5US
06-28-2006, 06:50
Well I guess that about covers it Crip:D
Class, please direct your attention to the new AI on the floor:cool:
Eagle
x SF med
06-28-2006, 07:00
"...so it sounds like one heck of a refresher course."
Bwahahaha!!!! Crip - I see your rude awakening, and raise a kick in the ass to Antons', 'Refresher Course'.
Anton- there's an old song "You ain't seen nothing, yet" that you ought to keep playing in your head during the 18D course - it'll come in handy - and 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" will be playing if you think you're going to skate because of your NREMT-P. Focus and learn, that's the key.
Thank you for the information Crip, it helped a lot.
Crip -
Well, for what it's worth, a fellow in my class was allowed to skip med funds because he was a former NREMT-P and an Emergency Room Physician's Assistant prior to coming to the Q from the NG. Extreme cases always seem to find a way, eh? Certainly the exception to the rule.
There you have it: a six week boost in the course for approximately 3-4 years total training/education and some 10 years combined civilian trauma experience. You do the math. Oh yeah, he still studies his ass off just like the rest of us.
One of my instructors explained it pretty well, "You can only drink from the firehose for so long before you begin to choke and drown." Personally, I'm looking for a set of gills.
Drive on,
Books
Eagle5US
07-01-2006, 06:17
Crip -
...a fellow in my class was allowed to skip med funds because he was a former NREMT-P and an Emergency Room Physician's Assistant
I think this was probably the key statement...
PA
Surgicalcric
07-01-2006, 09:51
I think this was probably the key statement...
PA
Infact I know it was the key Sir.
Books:
I have had the pleasure of speaking with the Dean on several occasions and this very subject has always come up. Wonder why... The answer was and still is no to us (NREMT-P's). They were trying to find a way for NREMT-P's to skip individual classes (med funds, trauma A, ACLS, PEPP (for those with a current PALS card, etc...)) but they havent been able to work out the details to do so.
There are 3 PA's currently in the course. All of them have "skipped" different parts of the course. There are 7 NREMT-P's in the course that I know of; none of us have been given advanced placement based on our certification status.
As for PA's, there is one in my class and he is an NREMT as well. He was allowed to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, and Surgical Skills. He joined our class with TC-3 and found himself "lost in the sauce." It was not a pretty site watching him try to learn "sticks and rags" and trauma sequence both at the same time. He pulled it out in the end but there was some question in the instructors minds. He is also skipping SOCM rotation, some med blocks, and the SOC-T rotation. He is a NG guy as well and total time in the Delta course will be just under 6 months. Damn PA's...lol
As much as I would love to have been able to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, TC3, ACLS, PEPP/PALS, and SOCM rotation I have found sometimes one doesn't quite know as much as he may think. Those of us ahead of the game have a responsibility to our brothers in training and those on teams now to square those struggling away as much as possible. This is providing they are already doing their best and want to learn. {SIDE BAR/ I have little time and no patience for those looking to scrape by and/or those who have time for "other things" but none to study. Emergency medicine is not the place, IMHO, for those not dedicated to saving lives. /SIDE BAR}
And thats all I have to say about this subject.
Books you have my number. If you are having trouble call me.
Crip
NousDefionsDoc
07-01-2006, 10:12
I don't favor skipping....
Eagle5US
07-01-2006, 13:14
As for PA's, there is one in my class and he is an NREMT as well. He was allowed to skip 'Funds, Trauma A, and Surgical Skills. He joined our class with TC-3 and found himself "lost in the sauce." It was not a pretty site watching him try to learn "sticks and rags" and trauma sequence both at the same time. He pulled it out in the end but there was some question in the instructors minds.
Crip
This type of performance indicate (IMHO) that this particular person perhaps should have been placed back where he would have learned / re-learned his skill set exceptionally well...instead of "getting by". Sometimes advanced placement fails in the end-not academically, but in it's performance result.
His allowance to continue (unfortunately) will more than likely generate two sets of comments:
1. Damn PA's...
and to worse of the two
2. I'm sorry Sir / Ma'am...I tried the best I could to save him, I just didn't know what else to do:(
Crip: I do belive you are speaking the very words regarding those who "scrape by" that we Deltas spoke to you on the beginning of your journey. It is more than pleasant to hear them repeated with such sincerity.
Eagle
NousDefionsDoc
07-01-2006, 13:57
Indeed Brother Eagle, the Pilgrim has come far....it has been gratifying watching his posts change over the 10 years or so he has been in the pipeline.
Surgicalcric
07-01-2006, 16:23
Indeed Brother Eagle, the Pilgrim has come far....it has been gratifying watching his posts change over the 10 years or so he has been in the pipeline.
Ouch...
Books you have my number. If you are having trouble call me.
Crip
Crip,
Thanks for the offer; I appreciate it. So far I'm doing alright (top quarter or so of my class) and I'm stoked to be moving from the theory to the practice (pt assessment, airway management, etc.). It's bitchin' stuff and I can tell that the curriculum developers have put together a program that will lay a great foundation for a lifetime of practicing medicine.
In fact, my biggest gripe is that there will always be a disparity between that which I do and that which I could have done: I can always see something else that I need to study more, investigate more. Every answer found begs another question, right? Except that there's only so much time in the day. . . no wonder Doctors spend four years in med school after a few years doing premed, only to jump into another 3-4 years of residency before they are considered "masters" of their domain. After that, they study some more. The subject is that big.
Speaking of which, there's a lull in the storm created by the holiday guests and I got a thick scary medic book looking to pick a fight.
Take care,
Books
NousDefionsDoc
07-01-2006, 22:41
In fact, my biggest gripe is that there will always be a disparity between that which I do and that which I could have done: I can always see something else that I need to study more, investigate more. Every answer found begs another question, right?
That Sluggo is the life for which you volunteered. It is the same with every MOS in Special Forces. We are never there, we are always "Workin' the prob Boss." When you think you've made it and there's nothing else to learn, you are deluding yourself and it's time to seek life elsewhere.
You are begining to understand why the term "Special" in front. You are in the easy part now, it only gets tougher. If you get to a Team, you will have infiltration methods, additional skills and cross training. Language and culture is constant and continuous. You'll be expected, nay demanded of, to maintain all these skills to a standard of which a Spartan would be proud. If you're good and don't get your rucksack slung down the hall or get dead, eventually, about the time you start getting your MOS figured out, they'll start looking at you for Team Sergeant, a whole new set of skills.
Selection doesn't end when you get a class date, it also is constant and continuous. You will be evaluated by your peers and your command every day, every move you make. Every time you open that aid bag, every one of your Brothers will watch every move you make. Being The Medic, you have to set the example for every other member of the Team. They all love a good Doc, nobody will stand for a shit Doc.
You are the one they call when shit ain't right, when they're hurtin', when they feel bad. And you by God better be ready.
If it was easy, any simple-minded leg pussy could do it. Quit whinging and get it done or quit - the True Believer is waiting for your young ass and you better believe he'll be ready....
Surgicalcric
07-02-2006, 09:22
...Selection doesn't end when you get a class date, it also is constant and continuous. You will be evaluated by your peers and your command every day, every move you make...
Recently I have come to realize this is also true while in the course, reputation wise. Here at JSOMT-C there is atleast one instructor from damn near each battalion of every Group and that includes the Guard. My reputation as a medic began my first day here and it will follow me the rest of my career. Its no longer enough just to graduate or graduate near/at the top of the class. Its about being a team member, which learning all you can is part of being a team player IMHO.
I have watched guys become shitbags here who were squared away at SFAS, PH-II, CLT, etc... They are passing with good grades but they arent dependable, they dont watch out for the other guys in their squad or class, etc. Instructors talk, students talk, and how these two different groups perceive you may determine whether you go straight to a B team, get any specialty team assignments and such forth.
We are being watched and talked about somewhere. The guys we are in class with and the guys in classes ahead and behind us will be the guys we serve with. The instructors have friends on teams and they want them taken care of by medics who are dependable and have their shit wired tight.
During my near 10 years in the course (thanks NDD) I have learned, and continue to learn everyday, there is more to learn while in the SFQC about being a Special Forces soldier than whats on the training schedule. Pay attention, I know I am.
The Quiet Professionals here are great examples to follow.
Crip
The instructors have friends on teams and they want them taken care of by medics who are dependable and have their shit wired tight.
Crip
Crip,
You just brought a smile to my heart. Those same comments were made years ago in front of my class by the instructors we had.
haztacmedic
07-02-2006, 14:44
Crip: I like your thinking brother. Just to add my own 0.2 cents here about prior EMS/NREMT-P. I have been a paramedic since 1990. I have every "LS" class available in my area. (these are classes that have life support in their title) ABLS, ACLS, BLS, BTLS, HMALS, HMBLS, PALS, and PHTLS..
Even after all that training Id go through anything they required of me without any expectation of skipping stuff or other preferential treatment.
The fact is Im always trying to learn new things in medicine. We owe it to the people we get the honor of treating.
I would also never volunteer to anyone that I am a NREMT-P. Id keep my geriatric mouth shut and enjoy the hell out of the WHOLE experience.
Have there ever been any PA's who made it through 18D without letting anyone know they were a PA? Does the gray man metaphor work here or is it considered dishonest to withold that bit info from the cadre?
Crip
keep up the good outlook and focus.
I have respect for anyone that can graduate the 18D course infact one of your instructors sewed my eye up so good i can't see the scar anymore. and a year later i had to get my face sewed up again on the other side from a diffrent 18D, I can see that scar but barly but that one was almost a loss of eye sight so im not complaining.... hehehehe
Doc ive got icky belly can you fix it lol oh what fun awaits you young Delta's on a Team.
Eagle5US
07-06-2006, 05:38
Have there ever been any PA's who made it through 18D without letting anyone know they were a PA? Does the gray man metaphor work here or is it considered dishonest to withold that bit info from the cadre?
This really is a reversal of the traditional pathway. There probaby haven't been many to go through in the first place. I do know of one Emergency Room physician though (from Florida) who enlisted in the Army as an 18D and was subsequently KIA.
Eagle
Surgicalcric
07-06-2006, 05:46
Have there ever been any PA's who made it through 18D without letting anyone know they were a PA? Does the gray man metaphor work here or is it considered dishonest to withold that bit info from the cadre?
Its very hard to keep things like being a PA or a paramedic a secret during the SFQC. While at SFAS, PH-II, SERE, etc you sit around with the others in your team, squad, student ODA and talk about each others lives, experiences, etc and get to know those guys on a more personal level for several reasons. If you do manage to keep it a secret its because you really didnt get to know the guys you are in training with and they didnt get to know you, not a good thing. It will eventually come out as it did in my case.
I get outed for being a paramedic by someone in my class with each new block of training here in the Delta course. Sometimes it works for me and other times against me, but I cant complain (not that it would do any good.)
Crip
x SF med
07-06-2006, 06:24
Crip
keep up the good outlook and focus.
I have respect for anyone that can graduate the 18D course infact one of your instructors sewed my eye up so good i can't see the scar anymore. and a year later i had to get my face sewed up again on the other side from a diffrent 18D, I can see that scar but barly but that one was almost a loss of eye sight so im not complaining.... hehehehe
Doc ive got icky belly can you fix it lol oh what fun awaits you young Delta's on a Team.
during the 18D course I was working at Womack in the ER - forget the the SF guys - its The O wives that are the biggest PITAs around - if their kid is sick or hurt watch out - but it is a great way to really learn Peds Med - another guy and I got to sew up a kid who fell off an AC unit and really gashed his leg - I think it was 250 or 300 sutures 50% internal - the kid was great - the parents really sucked, kept the kid scared until we had them removed from the ER. REmember D's and C's are the biggest CA ambassadors on the team - we heal the sick and build the latrines and homes....
TrooperT
01-15-2009, 22:38
A quick question for the younger guys. Does an 18D become National Registry certified as a result of passing the Q-Course? I understood that to be the case at one time but heard that it's no longer so. In my day (early 80's), if you were lucky, you could basic EMT certified in Fayetteville at the community college.
Back then, a lot of the guys thought EMT Basic was a big leg-up going through Phase II/Med Lab. I didn't think it helped much at all since we already learned most of the same stuff in 91B school and well above that in 300F1.
Surgicalcric
01-15-2009, 23:02
The short answer is no. An 18D can challenge the NREMT-P test(s) but it isnt given at the schoolhouse any longer.
SOCOM has what they call the ATP (Advanced Tactical Practitioner) certification that all SOCM grads must take now. It is more difficult, IMHO, than the NREMT-P test ever had time to be. It is much more applicable to what we do in the military side of the house but the drawback is that its useless in the civilian world...
HTH,
Crip
Kingfisher
01-16-2009, 16:26
This really is a reversal of the traditional pathway. There probaby haven't been many to go through in the first place. I do know of one Emergency Room physician though (from Florida) who enlisted in the Army as an 18D and was subsequently KIA.
Eagle
Eagle- If I am thinking of the same guy you are talking about he was already tabbed, a batt. surgeon and wanted to deploy. He had to then go through the course to become an 18D prior to deployment. It was a shame to lose this man.