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jatx
06-25-2006, 16:55
I had a very disturbing incident this afternoon.

After leaving an exhibit near South Street Seaport in Lower Manhattan, I walked past a group of Rasta-looking types packing up their bongos, apparently on their way to a better corner. As I did this, one of the men began angrily berating his three small children, approx. 8-9 years old, who appeared to be sitting obediently and quietly. One girl, two boys.

Anyway, I sort of veered around them, but looked back over my should only to see the man STRIKE the first boy on the side of the head with the heel of his hand. And I'm not talking about a slap, it was a hard blow close to the kid's temple, who fell on the ground and began crying.

I stopped in my tracks about 30 feet from where this was happening, only to see the man move to the second child, a little girl who was visibly cringing, and STRIKE her exactly the same way. She began crying and he then repeated his actions with the third child. All of this happened within 30 seconds, and he continued yelling at them in some unintelligible patois.

Where I come from, you don't hit kids, and if you do it is everybody's business. I took out my phone and called 911. While I was giving the operator my location, one of the other males in the group spotted me and began walking my direction. He had a drum of some sort under one arm and a large bag under the other. When he got to within a few feet of me, he started shouting, "Mind your own fu@#ing business!" He was clearly agitated.

Luckily, a cruiser stopped just feet from me at that moment, and I yelled to the cops inside that they needed to stop the first man, who was beating his children. They flipped a quick U turn and headed down the block after him, as he had started to flee the scene. This left me alone on the corner with the agitated guy, so I began walking quickly toward where the police had stopped, approx. 50 yds up the sidewalk.

The guy followed me closely, growing angrier and angrier, shouting at me the entire time. People around us were oblivious. He then said, "Maybe I should smack you upside your f@#cking head!" I began looking for a way to get away from him, but my options were somewhat limited. The sidewalk was crowded and the street was very busy.

I then heard him say to me, "Yeah, I AM going to hit you upside your f@#cking head." I turned to look at him and a heavy piece of wood, like a length of old-fashioned broom handle, had appeared in his hand. I was still separated from the police by about 25 yards of crowded sidewalk.

So I reached under my t-shirt and pulled out my new HAK (a bday present from JAGeorgia), which was hanging around my neck. As soon as I had it out, a woman screamed. The guy paused and looked at me like I was crazy. And the next thing I knew, one of the officers was between us and taking the club from the guy. After some back and forth, it was agreed that my HAK was not an illegal knife, and it was returned before I was sent on my way.

Bottom line: If this had happened it Texas, I would have been carrying and the police would probably not have been so close by. It would probably have ended in a shooting, judging by the guy's demeanor (he had clearly worked himself into a frenzy while following me). I'm glad that didn't have to happen.

But these days I travel a lot, and that means being unarmed except for a knife most of the time. The HAK is unobtrusive and easy to carry, and would be harder to knock out of my hand in a situation like this, were it ever repeated.

Thanks for the new tool, FS, you bought me a few crucial seconds today.

NousDefionsDoc
06-25-2006, 17:19
I personally think you handled that as well as you could have. You were lucky they didn't take it away from you, although it would have been a small price to pay and they are relatively easy to replace, depending on how your treat FS on this board.:cool:

Gypsy
06-25-2006, 18:06
Damn! I hope they caught up with the guy beating his kids. Glad you are okay jatx, and that you retained your HAK as well.

mugwump
06-25-2006, 19:24
I had a very disturbing incident this afternoon...

Jatx, good for you!

I've used Fox Labs in a similar situation (no kids involved, but "I'm gonna mess you up!") and wished I had backup. I think you've pursuaded me to get a HAK.

I was taught to extend an arm in a blocking position and fire the OC with the other hand high and back so it can't be swatted out of the way. I think the blocking arm would be more effective with a claw growing out of it.

Seth
06-26-2006, 10:10
So I reached under my t-shirt and pulled out my new HAK (a bday present from JAGeorgia), which was hanging around my neck. As soon as I had it out, a woman screamed. The guy paused and looked at me like I was crazy. And the next thing I knew, one of the officers was between us and taking the club from the guy. After some back and forth, it was agreed that my HAK was not an illegal knife, and it was returned before I was sent on my way.



Good handling, jatx.

Questions in the actual observations of your HAK, once deployed:

1. Which persons actually observed the HAK, and what range did you precive the HAK observed?

2. Did screaming woman react to your HAk deployment, or was She reacting to other event?

3. Did LEO observe your HAK; or, did you declare your HAK once incident stabilized?

4.Time of day and lighting conditions?

I'm building information that a HAK offers low visibility profile, and am curious to real life visibility incidents.

-Seth

jatx
06-26-2006, 11:17
Good handling, jatx.

Questions in the actual observations of your HAK, once deployed:

1. Which persons actually observed the HAK, and what range did you precive the HAK observed?

2. Did screaming woman react to your HAk deployment, or was She reacting to other event?

3. Did LEO observe your HAK; or, did you declare your HAK once incident stabilized?

4.Time of day and lighting conditions?

I'm building information that a HAK offers low visibility profile, and am curious to real life visibility incidents.

-Seth

1. Sidewalk bystanders, 8-10 feet (it was crowded)

2. I don't know if she saw the HAK or club first and reacted to that, or if she heard what we were saying to each other.

3. LE defnitely saw the knife, but disarmed the guy with the club first. I dropped the HAK on the ground before they could disarm me. They gave it back when it was time to go.

4. Mid-afternoon, overcast conditions

Hope that helps.

24 hours later, I have a couple of observations about the whole thing:

1. My sense of time and recollection of events is pretty distorted. My understanding is that this is typical of stressful situations, but it is a new one on me. Now I understand why eyewitness testimony is taken with a grain of salt.

2. I could have crossed the street, created distance between myself and the group, and maintained a visual on them until the police arrived. I put myself at risk by remaining close. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Lesson learned.

SCRMBLR
06-27-2006, 19:42
Jaxt,

What color is your HAK?

Do you think the color made a difference in the bystanders or the police spotting it?

I am toying with the idea of a tan/flesh-tone coating for mine.

Thanks!

jatx
06-28-2006, 04:13
Jaxt,

What color is your HAK?

Do you think the color made a difference in the bystanders or the police spotting it?

I am toying with the idea of a tan/flesh-tone coating for mine.

Thanks!

It's OD green, but I don't think that makes much difference one way or another. If you are brandishing one in a fighting stance and someone doesn't notice it, regardles of color, they aren't paying attention.

Besides, once you are in the fight, why try to make it blend in? Making the guy pause hard is what saved me some trouble here. If I were getting another one, I would choose a really funky color and just wrap the handle with tan para cord.

Razor
06-29-2006, 21:55
If your intent is to brandish as a deterrent, then having something easily seen would be the way to go. I'd prefer that should things come to blows, the guy never realizes I have a knife until its too late.

12B4S
06-30-2006, 01:16
I agree. The same as carrying a concealed weapon. Here in AZ, I can legally carry openly. I don't!!!! I can also go through the course and and all that is required and carry concealed. I havn't gone through what is required yet. (Mostly because of my vehicle and females. Which at times can be quite similar. They COST ya!!. ;)

Back on thread. I don't carry open here. The main reason being is I lose the advantage. As Razor pointed out, to me, the purpose of something like the HAK, which I carry everyday, is not to intimidate. I don't want to telegraph to whatever butthole that is comming at me. I WANT the advantage. I want to win. Out there on the streets, is just another form of combat. He will know, feel, I have it, some seconds after I let him know. Staying with the knife thing and feeding off Razor's post. That Alligator Dundee flick. Something like.... 'Now this is a knife'. ;)

You did great jatx. You did what you felt you needed to and it all worked out ok. :) That guy was just some pissed of coward.