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MtnGoat
06-18-2006, 10:53
So what's the talk on the South Korea's ambassador stating Tuesday there are some indications that North Korea is preparing for a test launch of a long-range ballistic missile. Saw on Friday that this weeknd this test could happen, nothing as of this morning.

North Korea is preparing for a possible test of an intercontinental ballistic missile with the potential to hit the US, according to Washington officials. From what I saw this new missile could reach Kaliforeena and Navada, N. Korea current has a IBM that can reach Japan and Hawaii.

FOX NEWS (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199914,00.html)

MORE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060616/ap_on_re_as/us_north_korea)

Which one matters more, a country that has IBCNMs or a country that is working on getting Nuclear capabilities?

Its like the old saying... " No learns faster, than the man getting shot at"

Slantwire
06-19-2006, 07:55
Which one matters more, a country that has IBCNMs or a country that is working on getting Nuclear capabilities?


I'll pick the one with ICBMs, nukes, and a seriously wacky dictator.

QRQ 30
06-19-2006, 08:26
I'll pick the one with ICBMs, nukes, and a seriously wacky dictator.
Definitely the whacky dictator. It is totally unrealistic to believe we can deny the knowledge and technology from others. It has been around for over 60 years now.

aricbcool
06-20-2006, 00:05
I'll pick the one with ICBMs, nukes, and a seriously wacky dictator.

+1

--Aric

Five-O
06-20-2006, 06:58
A few of our options as I see them. Any other ideas?

1. Strike the missle as it fuels on the pad (pre-launch)
2. Allow the launch and intercept the missle in flight (if possible)
3. Allow the test to take place and deal with the aftermath
4. Start HEAVY investment in a space based missle intercept platform. As QRQ30 points out, the technology is out there and we will not be able to prevent the proliferation of nuclear ballistic missle technology.

lrd
06-20-2006, 10:11
A few of our options as I see them. Any other ideas?

1. Strike the missle as it fuels on the pad (pre-launch)
2. Allow the launch and intercept the missle in flight (if possible)
3. Allow the test to take place and deal with the aftermath
4. Start HEAVY investment in a space based missle intercept platform. As QRQ30 points out, the technology is out there and we will not be able to prevent the proliferation of nuclear ballistic missle technology.

A little background:

"A Day in the Life of the BMDS," from the MDA website: http://www.mda.mil/mdalink/pdf/bmdsbook.pdf

Team Sergeant
06-20-2006, 10:20
A little background:



A little background??????? :rolleyes: How about a whole lot of background!

Thanks lrd, great link.

TS

QRQ 30
06-20-2006, 10:21
I go with #4 with the following qualifications. I am hopefully optimistic that the USG has been continually involved for decades.

Most of the arm-chair quarterbacking is based upon the cards that are showing. The good player dosen't show all of his cards and even keeps a few winners up his sleeve. In no way do I believe the USG has shown all of its cards.

However, what an opportune time to test our ABM system.:lifter

lrd
06-20-2006, 10:40
A little background??????? :rolleyes: How about a whole lot of background!

Thanks lrd, great link.

TS
I decided to give you the short version...IIRC, the long version tops out at 600+ pages... :D

dmgedgoods
06-20-2006, 11:24
However, what an opportune time to test our ABM system.

WashingtonPost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/20/AR2006062000579.html)

The intel was put forward in 2003, by George Tenet no less, that North Korea had the capabilities to hit the US. Why the stagnation? Any thoughts?

Another talking point: The proposed range of the Taep'o-dong 2 (TD-2) is 3,650-3,750 km. The distance from Korea to California is over 9000 km. The ability for North Korea to attack the US seems to be limited to Alaska.

Just some thoughts; delete if inappropriate.

McD

Team Sergeant
06-20-2006, 11:56
WashingtonPost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/20/AR2006062000579.html)

The intel was put forward in 2003, by George Tenet no less, that North Korea had the capabilities to hit the US. Why the stagnation? Any thoughts?

Another talking point: The proposed range of the Taep'o-dong 2 (TD-2) is 3,650-3,750 km. The distance from Korea to California is over 9000 km. The ability for North Korea to attack the US seems to be limited to Alaska.

Just some thoughts; delete if inappropriate.

McD

I read the same "Reuters" article earlier today.

Here's my question to you (and others) why is a missile such big news? Why not just place a nuke in a shipment of rice to the US?

The missile issue (IMO) is just sabre rattling and nothing more.

It's the only way a depraved little man such as kim jong il can get any world attention.......

TS

QRQ 30
06-20-2006, 12:01
I read the same "Reuters" article earlier today.

Here's my question to you (and others) why is a missile such big news? Why not just place a nuke in a shipment of rice to the US?

The missile issue (IMO) is just sabre rattling and nothing more.

It's the only way a depraved little man such as kim jong il can get any world attention.......

TS

ZAKTLY!!! Ian is stealing his thunder.

dmgedgoods
06-20-2006, 12:20
That's the direction I'm leaning towards, sir.
This missile test is big news only because it's in the Big News. Fear mongering is good for business:
North Korea Missile Test (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=north+korea+missile+test&spell=1)

McD

lrd
06-20-2006, 12:50
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062006C

Star Wars: The Sequel
By Alan W. Dowd : BIO| 20 Jun 2006

Quietly, almost imperceptibly, outside the glare of the Beltway and beyond the daily chaos of the war on terror, the US military is continuing to piece together an international missile defense system (IMD). Indeed, spring 2006 has brought with it new support and new partners from Europe, deeper cooperation in the Pacific, hopeful signs from friends in North America, steady advances on the technology front, and ever more ominous threats in the Middle East and Northeast Asia.

First, the good news.

Early in his presidency, George W. Bush vowed to begin operating the IMD's "initial capabilities in 2004 and 2005." Making good on the president's promise, the Pentagon started deploying the first interceptors at Ft. Greely, Alaska, in July 2004. Today, there are nine interceptors online in Alaska and another two at Vandenberg AFB, California. As the decade moves forward, the Pentagon will stand up a total of 30 interceptors at the two bases.

Still, the key word here is "initial." Missile defense remains a work in progress. For example, a highly sophisticated X-band radar is being towed by sea from Hawaii to Adak, Alaska, which sits some 1,200 miles southwest of Anchorage. Once activated, it will discern between decoys and warheads as small as a baseball, and keep a watchful eye on inbound traffic from Beijing and Pyongyang.

Elsewhere on the high seas, May saw the Navy fire an SM-2 anti-missile missile from the deck of an Aegis cruiser and kill an inbound threat in its terminal phase (the final few seconds of flight). "It was the first sea-based intercept of a ballistic missile in its terminal phase," according to the Missile Defense Agency (MDA).

Likewise, the MDA scored a land-based success in May, when rocketeers at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico test-fired a high-altitude interceptor missile designed to seek out and destroy inbound threats in their final minute of flight.

In the skies, the Airborne Laser -- a missile-killing laser mounted on a 747 that can loiter outside enemy territory and destroy a missile long before it threatens American soil -- continues to hit its marks. Ground-based testing of the laser was completed in December, with a new round of flight-tests scheduled for this coming fall, all building toward a full-blown missile-intercept above Edwards AFB sometime in 2008.

Finally, in space, the MDA plans to begin deploying a "Space-Based Interceptor Test Bed" by 2008, which could give the US the ability to launch missile-killing satellites.

As the technological pieces fall into place, so too does the IMD alliance: The Polish and Czech governments are negotiating with Washington on the deployment of anti-missile bases on their soil, enabling the IMD system to peer deep into Asia, the Middle East and Africa. The Poles have even expressed a willingness to open their territory to missile interceptors. The Pentagon is ready to invest an estimated $1.6 billion in what will be the IMD's easternmost outpost in Europe. With plans to deploy ten missile-killers in Europe by 2011, the Pentagon is expected to choose a site this summer. (Given the Poles' strong and open support for the program and the Czechs' more low-key approach, the smart money is on Poland.)

The IMD's blossoming support in Poland and the Czech Republic follows crucial decisions in Britain to approve upgrades at Fylingdales (in 2003) and in Denmark to approve similar upgrades in Thule, Greenland (in 2004). Once used to scan the skies for Soviet bombers, the bases in Britain and Greenland will now monitor the European horizon for accidental or rogue missile launches.

And this is just a microcosm of NATO's newfound interest in missile defenses: After completing (in May of this year) a four-year, 10,000-page study on missile defense, NATO officially believes the program is technologically and financially feasible. And a growing number of NATO members believe it's necessary. Spurred by events in Iran, governments in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Norway are cooperating with Washington on elements of missile defense. Turkey is also investing in missile defenses. Stephen Harper, Canada's no-nonsense prime minister, wants to re-engage with Washington on missile defense. The previous government held an agnostic view of the system, opting out of full participation in mid-2005.

Elsewhere, Australia signed a 25-year pact on missile defense cooperation in 2004; Israel has already deployed its link in the IMD chain, the Arrow anti-missile system; and now the US and India are opening the way toward IMD cooperation.

But no member of this amorphous IMD coalition seems more serious about the threat than Japan. With Kim Jong-Il just next door, that's understandable. According to the MDA, the Japanese system already includes a network of new ground-based radars; SM-3 interceptors, which attack incoming missiles at their highest point; missile-tracking Aegis warships, which patrol near rogue countries; and Patriot PAC-3s, which serve as a last line of defense. Last month, Japan agreed to deploy a new X-band radar near Misawa to support US and Japanese anti-missile assets. The two allies also agreed to establish a joint air and missile defense base at Yakota Air Base by 2010.

Plus, as the Claremont Institute's project on missile defense reported last month, the US and Japan have agreed to deploy new batteries of PAC-3 interceptor missiles at the Kadena Air Base in Okinawa. "Japan also plans to deploy PAC-3 batteries at bases in the Saitama and Shizuoka prefectures near Tokyo," according to Claremont. The two nations are also committed to co-developing a newer version of the SM-3.

Why the rush? The answer to that question leads us to the bad news.

Three decades ago, there were eight countries (not including the US) that possessed ballistic missiles. Today, there are 25. By my count, 15 of them are unfriendly, unstable or uncertain about their relationship to the US. With their twin terror programs that seek to match rockets with nukes, North Korea and Iran fall into that first category. (While their leaders may be unstable, their regimes are anything but: One has held power for almost six decades, the other for almost three.)

Over the past three weeks, North Korea has been methodically preparing to test-fire a missile known as the Taepodong 2 (or TD-2), with a range of perhaps 2,600 miles. That's good enough to hit parts of Alaska. In fact, by the time you read this, the launch may have already occurred.

Carried out in plain view of US satellites and other reconnaissance assets, preparations for North Korea's first rocket test since 1998 have drawn sharp warnings from the US, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. The New York Times reports that US officials have even taken the "highly unusual" step of phoning North Korean diplomats at the UN to underscore Washington's sincerity. In addition, US and Japanese forces have reportedly redeployed reconnaissance aircraft, Aegis warships and radar-jamming warplanes.

It makes no sense for Pyongyang to be provocative, even bellicose, at this moment; but when was the last time the North Korean regime made sense? Trying to divine Kim Jong-Il's thoughts, some say he is rattling his missiles because he's tired of Iran getting all of the West's attention. Whether or not he fires off the TD-2, the US and its allies should disabuse him of the notion that his regime is off the radar screen. If he wants attention, the allies should give it to him. One way to do just that is for Japan to go through with plans to bring North Korea before the UN Security Council. If ever there was a threat to peace, it is Kim Jong-Il's regime.

Speaking of threats to peace, Iran's missile program is marching forward. The Claremont Institute reports that "Iran has conducted four missile tests since the beginning of 2006," including tests of a modified intermediate-range ballistic missile known as the Shahab-3 and the longer-range Shahab-4. The former brings US allies and assets (and troops) in Israel, Turkey, Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan into range. The latter could strike targets as far away as Europe (approximately 1,250 miles).

Finally, amid all the bad news and good news that is propelling IMD, missile-defense center at Vandenberg AFB was re-christened this spring. It's now called the Ronald W. Reagan Missile Defense Site -- a fitting name for one of the nation's first anti-missile bases. After all, if Vandenberg's interceptors are ever called to duty, they will be ready thanks to Reagan's farsighted vision.

Alan W. Dowd is a senior fellow at Sagamore Institute for Policy Research.

MtnGoat
06-20-2006, 17:58
Here's my question to you (and others) why is a missile such big news? Why not just place a nuke in a shipment of rice to the US?

The missile issue (IMO) is just sabre rattling and nothing more.

TS
TS I agree with your point, and thats what I was thinking.

Look at all of the Think Tank Site, INTEL Centers, ETC - were are they pointing to, this test put N. Korean ICBMs within the Continental United States not just Alaska. With today's world you don't need a missile, are we already going back to the per-9/11 thinking.

There no way somebody can ply a plane into the (Whatever-You add)

To me this is nothing more that additional PRESS for the BMDS program. This is so "they" can push for money and funding for IMO a program that should have been made already. We have missiles, bombs, rockets, ETC that we can "shoot" at Tanks, Planes, and buildings and hit a moving target.

BMDS turned on (http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060620-123010-4554r.htm)

MtnGoat
06-20-2006, 18:30
Musudan-ri launch facility (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/nodong.htm) INFO

Satellite imagery of the Musudan-ri test facility (http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/no_dong-imagery.htm)

Comprehensive list of all of the Missile Defense Flight Tests (http://www.cdi.org/program/document.cfm?DocumentID=1984&StartRow=1&ListRows=10&appendURL=&Orderby=D.DateLastUpdated&ProgramID=6&from_page=index.cfm)

So why do these test matter??

lrd
06-22-2006, 17:02
Posted on Thu, Jun. 22, 2006

U.S. military intercepts missile in test

Associated Press

HONOLULU - A Navy ship intercepted a medium-range missile warhead above the earth's atmosphere off Hawaii in the latest test of the U.S. missile defense program, the military said Thursday.

The military had initially scheduled the test for Wednesday but postponed the drill after a small craft ventured into a zone that had been blocked off for the event.

The USS Shiloh detected a medium-range target after it was launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility on Kauai, then fired a Standard Missile-3 interceptor.

The interceptor shot down the target warhead after it separated from its rocket booster, more than 100 miles above the Pacific Ocean and 250 miles northwest of Kauai, the Missile Defense Agency said in a statement.

The agency said the test had been scheduled for months and was not prompted by indications that North Korea was planning to test launch a long-range missile.

http://www.contracostatimes.com

lrd
06-22-2006, 17:07
A bit more info:



Upgraded Raytheon Standard Missile-3 Intercepts Separating Ballistic Missile Target


PACIFIC MISSILE RANGE FACILITY, KAUAI, Hawaii, June 22, 2006
/PRNewswire/ -- A Raytheon Company-produced Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) and
the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD) 3.6 Weapon System destroyed a
ballistic missile target today outside the earth's atmosphere over the
Pacific Ocean. It was the seventh successful intercept for Aegis BMD's
SM-3.
The flight mission, Flight Test Maritime-10, was the first to use the
new Block IA version of SM-3, which Raytheon is scheduled to deliver to the
Missile Defense Agency later this year. The SM-3 Block IA provides
increased capability to engage both short- and medium-range ballistic
missiles with rocket motor upgrades and computer program modifications to
improve sensor performance, missile guidance and control, as well as lower
cost. It also includes producibility and maintainability design changes
required to qualify the missile as a tactical fleet asset.
The flight mission was also the second successful test against a
medium-range, separating ballistic missile target. The mock warhead
separated from the booster section, presenting a more challenging
engagement scenario.
In the operationally realistic scenario, the SM-3 was launched from USS
Shiloh and hit the target missile that had been launched from the U.S.
Navy's Pacific Missile Range Facility on Kauai, Hawaii. The ship's crew was
not informed of the target launch time, further simulating a realistic
wartime environment. The Navy's operational testers participated in the
planning, execution and assessment of the exercise.
"This test validates the SM-3 Block IA design and paves the way for us
to ramp up production of this urgently needed capability," said Edward
Miyashiro, Raytheon Missile Systems vice president, Naval Weapon Systems.
"The system's and team's continued success is a testament to our focus on
Mission Assurance at every level."
A secondary flight mission objective was to evaluate the ability of a
land-based X-band radar to cue an Aegis destroyer, via the Ballistic
Missile Defense System, to detect and track a ballistic missile. Raytheon
Integrated Defense Systems' TPS-X (Transportable Surveillance X-Band)
radar, installed on Kauai, tracked the target missile from launch and also
tracked the SM-3 Block IA from horizon break through target intercept. The
target's track information was relayed as designed to USS Milius.
Raytheon's Missile Systems business in Tucson, Ariz., is developing
SM-3 and leads the integrated team effort, which includes Alliant
Techsystems, Aerojet and The Boeing Company.
Raytheon continues to deliver missiles to the Missile Defense Agency
under contract to increase the nation's inventory of operational rounds.
The kinetic warhead seeker and final integration occur in Raytheon's
state-of-the-art kill vehicle manufacturing facility in Tucson, alongside
the Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle, an element of the Ground-based Missile
Defense program. Final assembly and testing of SM-3 occurs at Raytheon's
Camden, Ark., facility.
Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN), with 2005 sales of $21.9 billion, is an
industry leader in defense and government electronics, space, information
technology, technical services, and business and special mission aircraft.
With headquarters in Waltham, Mass., Raytheon employs 80,000 people
worldwide.
Note to Editors:
Raytheon's missile defense hit-to-kill successes with the Standard
Missile-3 occurred Jan. 25, June 13 and Nov. 21, 2002; Dec. 11, 2003; and
Feb. 24 and Nov. 17, 2005. Successes with the Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle
occurred Oct. 2, 1999; July 13 and Dec. 3, 2001; and March 15 and Oct. 14,
2002.
Contact:
Sara Hammond
520.794.7810


SOURCE Raytheon Company

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Related links:

http://www.raytheon.com

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QRQ 30
06-22-2006, 17:12
Who cares about NK's bottle rocket?:p
The administration has fallen into NK's hands by giveing them the attention they crave. Harry Truman would have sent a person to person letter to Kim saying: "We know what you are doing and our's are bigger than yours"
End of story!!

2VP
07-04-2006, 15:33
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/07/04/korea.missile/index.html

CNN
3 Missiles fired, 2 short and 1 long range

U.S. official: North Korea tests long-range missile

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- North Korea launched a long-range Taepodong-2 missile early Wednesday in an apparently unsuccessful test that failed in flight, a senior State Department official said.

North Korea also tested at least two smaller missiles, U.S. sources told CNN.

Both missiles were launched from a site other than the one intelligence officials have watched for weeks ahead of the long-range missile test, a senior State Department official said.

The United States, Japan and other countries have warned North Korea against a long-range missile test, saying such a move would be considered a provocation.

Washington and North Korea's Asian neighbors -- South Korea, China, Russia and Japan -- have been trying to persuade North Korea to dismantle its nuclear weapons program since 2002, but those talks have stalled in recent months.

President Bush warned last week that the isolated Stalinist state would face even further isolation if it launched the Taepodong-2, which U.S. analysts fear is capable of reaching the western United States. (Full story)

"The North Koreans have made agreements with us in the past, and we expect them to keep their agreements," Bush said last month at the end of a European Union summit.

"It should make people nervous when nontransparent regimes, that have announced that they've got nuclear warheads, fire missiles," Bush said. "This is not the way you conduct business in the world. This is not the way that peaceful nations conduct their affairs."

The senior State Department official said the launches were timed to coincide with the launch of the space shuttle Discovery from Florida, calling it "a provocative act designed to get attention."

The North Koreans fired a Taepodong-1 missile over Japan in 1998, but declared a moratorium on future tests in 1999.

Two senior State Department officials said Tuesday that fuel trucks had departed the site where the Taepodong-2 sat on a launch paid, indicating that a test may have been near.

On Monday, Pyongyang's state-run media carried a report accusing the United States of harassing North Korea and vowing to respond to any pre-emptive attack "with a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war with a mighty nuclear deterrent." (Watch why North Korea is talking about annihilating the U.S. -- 2:04)

The White House has dismissed that threat as "hypothetical." (Full story)

Meanwhile, the Pentagon took steps to be ready for a possible military response to a North Korean missile launch.

The U.S. Northern Command recently increased security measures at its Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station in Colorado Springs, Colorado, a military official confirmed.

In other planning measures instituted in the past several days, Northern Command, along with the Federal Aviation Administration, has put standby commercial flight restrictions into place over Vandenberg Air Force Base in California and Fort Greely, Alaska, where the U.S. interceptor missiles are based.

QRQ 30
07-04-2006, 16:21
1st Stage blew up 35 sec. off of the launch pad.

WOW!!:eek:

7624U
07-04-2006, 16:37
I have confidence we can shoot down a missle from korea.
heck we have been shooting down UFO's from other planets for years now... :munchin

Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-04-2006, 18:19
I have a feeling that there are going to be a whole lot of command vacancies by the end of business today in the North Korean chain of command after the less than stellar performance of their rockets:D

The Reaper
07-04-2006, 18:33
Maybe we did shoot it down, and have not said anything about it.:munchin

TR

Jack Moroney (RIP)
07-04-2006, 18:40
Maybe we did shoot it down, and have not said anything about it.:munchin

TR

Well if we did, I am sure it will be leaked tomorrow by someone who wants to make sure that the missile defense dollars get pumped into all the programs that are lined up for that purpose. Washington cannot keep anything secret.

QRQ 30
07-04-2006, 18:44
Do you think Kim would care to compare his launch to ours:D :lifter ?

2VP
07-04-2006, 21:35
The most trusted name in news is now reporting a total of 5 short range missles and 1 long range.

7624U
07-05-2006, 05:43
wonder if we had any US anti aircraft frigates off the coast of japan.
Aegis Cruisers with all the new up dates they been getting could shoot it down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System

The Reaper
07-05-2006, 07:41
wonder if we had any US anti aircraft frigates off the coast of japan.
Aegis Cruisers with all the new up dates they been getting could shoot it down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System

Exactly.

SM-3 to the rescue. Hit 'em during boost phase.

TR

Team Sergeant
07-05-2006, 09:17
Makes you wonder if this guy was in the area........



http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/

x SF med
07-05-2006, 09:52
Didn't Dr Evil have one of those planes? Oh, sorry - his laser was in a mountain on a desert island.

7624U
07-05-2006, 14:55
Makes you wonder if this guy was in the area........



http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/abl/


or this guy

http://www.area51zone.com/aircraft/aurora.shtml

uboat509
07-05-2006, 18:03
I presume that by intercontinental they mean from the BORDER of a continent to the next one. For instance this rocket could be fired from Fort Bragg and be expected to successfully strike North Carolina.

SFC W