View Full Version : old story, Robin Sage?
Bill Harsey
06-12-2006, 09:40
A few years ago some Army men, participating in the Robin Sage exercise near Ft. Bragg, NC got tangled up with a local sheriff's deputy and shooting was involved.
Does anyone know the publicly available results of this?
Kyobanim
06-12-2006, 10:25
I don't remember the outcome but I know it was discussed on this board.
Did you use the search button?
:p :D
If I remember correctly, the LEO was exhonerated (sp?). Memory tells me that it was determined the the SF candidate that was killed thought that the LEO was part of the exercise and tried to dissarm the deputy. Also, it was said that there was no commo between the Army and LEO about the exercise.
Keep in mind that I have a terrible memory and I might have just pulled all that I wrote out of my forth point of contact.
Google found this:
http://www.training.sfahq.com/article_conflicting_version_02_11_1.htm
excerpt:
11-1-02 Posted 7 a.m.
FORT BRAGG (AP) -- A newly released Army report about the shooting death of a soldier during Special Forces training in February is raising new questions about what really happened.
Two witnesses to the fatal shooting give accounts that conflict with the version given by the sheriff's deputy who killed 1st Lt. Tallas Tomeny during the during the "Robin Sage" exercise in Moore County, according to the report obtained by The News & Observer of Raleigh.
The two witnesses -- one civilian and one soldier who were both involved in the training exercise -- said Deputy Randall Butler shot and killed Tomeny after Tomeny had been disabled by a chemical spray, and wounded another soldier who was reacting to the shooting of Tomeny......(more on link)
That was my class.....04-01 and that was two of my classmates. The one who was wounded was an 18C classmate of mine who I went though Phase 2, 3, and 4.
The chow hall at Camp Vance (A-stan) is named in honor of Tomeny.
CoLawman
06-12-2006, 10:56
The family of Lt. Tallas Tomeny have filed a lawsuit against Deputy Randall Butler and the Sheriff's Department.. Phelps the other soldier wounded in the confrontation has also filed a suit against the deputy and the Sheriff's Department.
Deputy Butler was cleared during the investigation by the GBI and by the Military investigation. Apparently the ruling was "accidental death."
There was no substantiation that Lt. Tomeny attempted to take the deputy's weapon. In fact the deputy sprayed mace at Tomeny which caused Tomeny to back up in apparent pain. When Phelps jumped out of the truck to assist, this caused the deputy (Butler's words) to believe that he was in danger due to being outnumbered, and aware of the two "machine guns" he had discovered. Butler fired at Tomeny first, killing him and then fired at Phelps striking him twice in the chest.
I have drawn conclusions based on statements that have been released. But my conclusions mean nothing, I just hope justice is served in the civil courts.
I recall that we have a member on this site that was a classmate of these soldiers at the "Q"
I guess we were posting at the same time!
x SF med
06-12-2006, 11:01
In the olden days, we just had to worry about the paramilitary arm of the KKK trying to steal weapons/equipment from the RS guys. We had good coordination with the LE in the AO - not that the ywere friendly all the time, but they knew we were there.
In the olden days, we just had to worry about the paramilitary arm of the KKK trying to steal weapons/equipment from the RS guys. We had good coordination with the LE in the AO - not that the ywere friendly all the time, but they knew we were there.
You forgot the good 'ol boys running a batch of shine. Did have a few run ins with them. None turned out Bad, in fact a couple turned out right good.
Our team shared a little log cabin with a bootlegger one time. "She" looked just like WC Fields. It was the season when the original Battlestar Galactica came out. That was on TV while she was running the operation.
SF - Known to travel with interesting people.
Pete
x SF med
06-12-2006, 11:23
Pete-
the 'leggers knew more about our ops than we did - and were very friendly and generous :cool: ... and actually warned my RS team about the KKK, I guess it's because we cut so much firewood for them durng 'turn down / hearts and minds' every cycle - and Mr Johnson got that huge field cut every 3 months...
Bill Harsey
06-12-2006, 11:25
I don't remember the outcome but I know it was discussed on this board.
Did you use the search button?
:p :D
No.
Thanks everyone, including Kyo, for the follow ups.
CPTAUSRET
06-12-2006, 13:08
Bill:
I believe I recall reading a report of the incident written by TR, said report was on another site, in a private room.
uboat509
06-12-2006, 14:58
I went through the Q shortly after this happened, in fact I was in student company waiting to start when they brought these two guys' bags back from Sage. One of the consequences of this whole thing is that during Sage we were not allowed to do anything without a cadre member with us. It was all a lot more closely controled than what we had heard about precious classes.
SFC W
AngelsSix
06-14-2006, 18:17
I met this deputy a few years ago, and after speaking to a few of his co-workers, realised that the man had been seriously distressed by the event. He took it really hard. Most of the stories I had read and heard about the event failed to mention that fact.
Sad as the death of a promising young man was, it was sadder that someone had to survive the act.
I remember this happening. I had been back in GP for a few years after Instructor duty at SWCS.
TR knows more about this event than any other person I know. Maybe one of you can ask him when he gets back to posting on here.
It was tragic and since I wasn't there, I won't comment on it.
RIP
DOL
I just remember the knee jerk reaction that prohibited all other Schools/Organizations from using LEO'S in their training. Reminded me of the mass punishment of taking away Flash-Bangs from everybody due to a few individuals using them incorrectly in the mid 90's
I think the big reaction from most SF was WTF.
Robin Sage had been running for so long and involved so many people from the area, police incuded that most would assume that everybody's first though gravitated to "Robin Sage". Newspaper articles "Robin Sage starts..." were in a lot of the local papers, not front page but in there.
I was not involved with the altercation in any way but my big question at the time was "Why didn't the LEO know Robin Sage was running?" At the weekly/nightly pre-shift briefing "Guy's, Robin Sage is running in our area again. Keep your eye's out for Military looking guys in civilian cloths, acting strange and with weapons."
The civilians are used to Paratroopers coming down in their back yards in the middle of the night but I'm still sure the LEOs get some strange calls during a Robin Sage.
This is pre-Robin Sage. We always got a briefing to forget anything seen while in Uwahri (Stills, etc.) There was some resistance to the first black students sent up there.
On one exercise we had to bust an asset out of the Moore County Jail in Carthage. Thank god the deputies were informed. The humorous part was that other prisoners didn't know what was happening and wanted to come along.:D
Monsoon65
06-16-2006, 15:50
This is pre-Robin Sage. We always got a briefing to forget anything seen while in Uwahri (Stills, etc.)
My dad, when stationed in South Carolina in the late '50's, said he came back from flying with holes in the rotors. They figured they were shot at by guys in the boonies with a still.
My dad, when stationed in South Carolina in the late '50's, said he came back from flying with holes in the rotors. They figured they were shot at by guys in the boonies with a still...
prolly :D :D :D
I went to a Pinelander Day in 2005; great time to sit down with the Auxiliary people that help make Robin Sage happen. Some Great Americans that provide their time, Money, and Families to help SWC make RS happen.
While there I sat down with this older gentlemen that had been doing Sage since the 1968/9 (don't remember what year). He asked me, "you know why Robin Sage is called RS? I said, "I had read that is was names after the COL's Daughter that started RS. His daughter name was Robin". He said yes to a point, the Col did have a Daughter name robin, but he named the exercised after the Town of Robbin's NC where RS first started. Do you remember the COLs name that started RS? I didn't remember, I said I thought it was Gen. Yarborough. The man said no it was a COL Sage., hence the full name for the exercise.
So my question is to BMT, COL M, QRQ, and others.. is this story true or how much is true of this story?
I was in Vietnam at that time b ut I believe that is accurate.
FYI Col Jerry Sage was the CO of the 10th SFGA in 64 when I got there. When the movie "The Great Escape" came to Germany, we all had to attend during duty hours. The movie was based, in part, on Col. Sage's actions in the OSS. He was an escape artist and engineered escapes from German POW camps.
When I went through SFTG the exercises were confined to Uwahri. I guess that the exercises got too numerous and Robin Sage AO was made to alleviate the pressure. IIRC it extends from Moore County and covers most of NC west of there.
Soft Target
06-18-2006, 08:43
Hey you old guys. I was a brand new leg shave tail in '71 and was in a unit that provided interrogators. I seem to recall that it was called "Gobbler Woods" back then. Am I hallucinating again?
Soft Target
06-18-2006, 08:50
You forgot the good 'ol boys running a batch of shine. Did have a few run ins with them. None turned out Bad, in fact a couple turned out right good.
Our team shared a little log cabin with a bootlegger one time. "She" looked just like WC Fields. It was the season when the original Battlestar Galactica came out. That was on TV while she was running the operation.
SF - Known to travel with interesting people.
Pete
Oh those folks are there. I was in Phase I, individual land nav, in early 1978 and was doing one of my required strolls through the country-side. I almost stumbled on a working still one night and smelled it before I saw some dim lights and knew what it was. I spent most of the rest of the night, and almost missed check-in, giving them a wide berth. When I told the cadre that morning, he laughed and said that they know who we are and would have treated you nice, I did not think it was funny at the time.
Hey you old guys. I was a brand new leg shave tail in '71 and was in a unit that provided interrogators. I seem to recall that it was called "Gobbler Woods" back then. Am I hallucinating again?
IIRC that was for the SFOC and was affectionately referred to as "Gobbler's Knob":D
Perhaps it was for SFTG. There was also another recurring FTX known as "Cherokee Trail".
I was in Vietnam at that time b ut I believe that is accurate.
FYI Col Jerry Sage was the CO of the 10th SFGA in 64 when I got there. When the movie "The Great Escape" came to Germany, we all had to attend during duty hours. The movie was based, in part, on Col. Sage's actions in the OSS. He was an escape artist and engineered escapes from German POW camps.
When I went through SFTG the exercises were confined to Uwahri. I guess that the exercises got too numerous and Robin Sage AO was made to alleviate the pressure. IIRC it extends from Moore County and covers most of NC west of there.
QRQ 30 Thanks for the Info, just looking to see if it was true.