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Pete
06-10-2006, 11:31
The girls, one of the boyfriends and I spent a few good hours up at the Rod & Gun Club Range this moring. Lots of friendly/polite people on the range, all the tables full but not crowded.

The girls and friend had a good time plinking with the .22s. This was the first time he had been to a range and he shot pretty good. Groups almost as good as the girl's.

We finished up with the AR15 and fired 120 rounds of the Silver Bear .223. I had picked up two spam cans at a good price and planned on using it for plinking. The girls and I had no problems with our rounds but the boyfriend had one failure to eject while on the bench and twice while standing.

All three times the case failed to come far enough back to spin out the port and the bolt cycled forward and jammed the case. Easy fix for me but as it was his first time I had to assist each time.

Hmmm. Until I burn through some more of this on the range and report back my ready magazines will have Lake City loaded in them.

Pete

Tubbs
06-11-2006, 02:36
Silver Bear ammo is ok for fun at the range. My friends and I have blown through about 500 rounds of it. As far as I know its made at the same factories that Wolf ammo is made at, but with lower quality control.

Pete
06-11-2006, 07:53
It is interesting that with a 2.5% failure to eject rate all three problems happened with the boyfriend. None with me or the girls. That makes about 400 rounds of green tip with no problems and the 120 Silver Bear rounds with the three failures.

They did give him that "God, what IS wrong with you" look that teenage girls can give oh so well.

Their girl friends are bugging their parents to let them come shooting with us. Might have to have a Girl's Day up at the range. Hmmm, I wonder if that would smoke out some of the younger guys with the sexy M4s and pistol set ups?

The girls think the .30 Carbine is cute and looks fun so that one will go to the range next time.

HOLLiS
06-11-2006, 10:57
Pete, My daughter likes the 30 carbine too. She helped me load about 500rds. She has very simple firearm tastes, she likes them all.

H.

Gene Econ
06-11-2006, 11:55
Silver Bear ammo is ok for fun at the range. My friends and I have blown through about 500 rounds of it. As far as I know its made at the same factories that Wolf ammo is made at, but with lower quality control.

Tubbs:

"Lower" quality control than Wolf ammo?:confused:

Is this possible?

Gene

gtcrispy
06-12-2006, 07:18
Their girl friends are bugging their parents to let them come shooting with us. Might have to have a Girl's Day up at the range. Hmmm, I wonder if that would smoke out some of the younger guys with the sexy M4s and pistol set ups?


Haha... I would show up with my weapons but I'm leaving this area Friday. I'm sure there are some other sluggos that would want to come out and play. :D

Pete
07-15-2006, 10:53
Took the girls up to the Lodge for some more shooting today. They just love that M1 Carbine. They do want me to get a front rail and EOTec sight for it.

On the Silver Bear Ammo

Fired the AR15 last because I wanted to fire some more Siver Bear. In just under 50 rounds we had a bad jam. The fired round failed to eject and the bolt picked up the next round and feed it forward. The two rounds spread into an "X" and the bolt face jammed up in between them.

The bolt stopped about 1/2 way forward with the base of the fired round jammed up in the charging handle channel and the live round base just above the magazine. The jam was so tight that it couldn't be pulled back by hand. Had to drop the magazine, upend the rifle and give the charging handle a light tap with a piece of wood. The live round dropped out and then the expended case needed an easy flick with a screwdriver tip to spin off the top of the bolt face and out of the channel.

I took a close look at the extractor and bolf face. Both appear to be in good condition with no chips or missing chunks. Everything else looks typical.

Near as I can figure, not being a weapons expert, is that the extractor must not be getting a good grip on the base of the case and during recoil is dropping the fired case.

Silver Bear has a steel colored case with some kind of lacquer on it.

Pete

Might be looking for a Bolt action .223 to fire off the rest of this Silver Bear. No more in the AR15.

The Reaper
07-15-2006, 11:08
Pete:

I don't shoot that stuff in anything I own, but it sounds like the lacquer has melted in the chamber and is causing sticky extraction.

Clean the chamber thoroughly with a strong solvent and a chamber brush and install an O-ring on the extractor spring.

And stop shooting that crap in your good guns. Save it for the AKs.

TR

Pete
07-15-2006, 12:24
...And stop shooting that crap in your good guns. Save it for the AKs.

TR

I figured that.

I find it interesting that each time I cleaned the rifle real good. On getting to the range the first jam was right around 50 rounds +/- with another jam about every 25 rounds.

Well, it looks like I've got some trading material when the endtimes come:D .

Pete

Prester John
07-15-2006, 16:25
Name a day you would like to go to the range. I have a few M4's and a couple pistols begging to be shot. I unloaded most of my collection this week to finance my downpayment on the house, but there a few fun toys left. I've been trying to get some of the guys in my track out to the range for 4 months. I'm tired of blowing my wallet at Jim's.

mugwump
07-15-2006, 16:31
Name a day you would like to go to the range. I have a few M4's and a couple pistols begging to be shot.

You guys are killing me. I've got to get out of this state.

Pete
07-30-2006, 10:53
Name a day you would like to go to the range.

Hey There Prester John;

It was fun shooting with you and your friend at the range today. Thing 2 says I should get an M4 with an electronic sight by this fall. She liked both of the ones you guys had. Much more handy then my AR15.

That 03 shot pretty good for being straight out of the DCM adoption center. Gotta' watch that magazine cut off switch. Talk about "Old Soldier" stuff.

Next time I'll bring the Garand.

Pete

Prester John
07-30-2006, 14:58
I had a blast. We should do it again. I had a great time watching the guys do their whiz bang stuff. We'll see if I get my mag back...

That 03 was awesome. I am getting in on that program. Glad that the M4's were well recieved. Shout at me if you're looking for a bargain.

Doug

yasnevo
10-18-2007, 23:30
As far as I know its made at the same factories that Wolf ammo is made at, but with lower quality control.


Negative... Wolf is made in Tula and the current Silver and Brown Bear ammo is made in Barnaul... apples and oranges...

The Reaper
10-19-2007, 08:14
Negative... Wolf is made in Tula and the current Silver and Brown Bear ammo is made in Barnaul... apples and oranges...

Okay, it is made in two different places.:rolleyes:

What is the substantive and qualitiative difference?

TR

yasnevo
10-19-2007, 11:42
to completely georgraphical places thousands of miles appart.
One factory, Barnaul Cartridge Plant uses a bit more QC than the other (Tula).

But Russian ammo is Russian ammo for the most part... its just that as far as Russian ammo goes, the Barnaul Ammo is better than the Tula (wolf stuff).


Y-

Pete
10-19-2007, 12:44
to completely georgraphical places thousands of miles appart.
One factory, Barnaul Cartridge Plant uses a bit more QC than the other (Tula).

But Russian ammo is Russian ammo for the most part... its just that as far as Russian ammo goes, the Barnaul Ammo is better than the Tula (wolf stuff).


Y-

I think TR was looking for something more along the line of the case covering on Silver Bear vs Wolf. Since Silver Bear has some kind of washed (?) steel case with something that makes it sticky and hard to extract from the AR series.

Just my opinion of course

The Reaper
10-19-2007, 12:48
As I stated, I was not planning a trip to visit, I was looking for some info on which might be better.

I will not shoot ammo with laquered cases in anything but my Commie guns, regardless.

If the Wolf and Bear are the same price, and the Bear is better, then that is what I needed to know.

TR

yasnevo
10-19-2007, 13:06
Ah heck, my bad. The Silver Bear is steel cased just like the normal brown lacquer stuff...but its covered with Zinc. I've seen less feeding issues with the Zinc than the Lacquer.

However, I use Russian ammo in combloc guns and brass western ammo in western made/designed guns. With that, haven't gone wrong yet.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Y-

yasnevo
10-19-2007, 13:07
Next will get into a discussion of Polymer finished steel cases vs Lacquer finished steel case... they are not created equal...

Y-

jatx
10-19-2007, 15:40
Next will get into a discussion of Polymer finished steel cases vs Lacquer finished steel case... they are not created equal...

Y-

I'd be very interested in this. A LWRC rep admitted to me the other day that they do all of their testing with poly coated Wolf...:eek:

The Reaper
01-21-2013, 11:38
Updated necropost.

Saw a recent test of four identical ARs, firing a total of 10,000 rounds each.

One was shooting Federal M193, the others each with a different Russian manufacturer.

In addition to the extraction issues, the steel core ammo from the Russians completely shot out the rifling by 5,000 rounds.

By 10,000 rounds, the 3 MOA guns were shooting over 14 MOA. The Federal gun was still shooting fine.

Conclusion was that if you don't mind changing barrels every few thousand rounds, the Russian ammo can save you some money.

TR

Stiletto11
01-21-2013, 20:49
Life is full of choices; new barrel/bolt/extractor: vs cheap ammo. Sounds like a no brainer.:D