PSYOP: Symbols in Warfare

[Warrior-Mentor]

In WWII, we used the Japanese fear of tigers to our advantage, hence the flying tigers on aircraft.

What animal could we use in the current campaign to help symbolize our efforts?

In christianity, the snake is a symbol of evil...and the eagle has been seen hunting the snake, or carrying a dead snake in it's beak.

What animals are significant in islamic folk tales? Ideally something that hunted evil with discrepancy....

Looking to start and intellectual discussion and brainstorm.

Any ideas?

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

I don't think you are going to find one size that fits all as Islam is worldwide and has been inculcated into many cultures and has usurped many countries with historical memories that supercede Islamic "reform". Islam has also evolved over the years as have the countries in which Islam took root so the roles and symbolism of animals have changed. Persia reviled the lion but Iran now uses it as its national symbol. Certainly the lion would also play a role in the African countries. Also I think you have to look at the different sects and how each interprets the Qu'ran. There are probably prohibitions against animal sacrifice in some sects and I would imagine critters that are deeply involved in their roots and culture such as the camel would have significance in the desert but not necessarily in countries without camels. The dog has been seen as impure which has led to abuse of dogs in some countries but in others they are now saying that Islam prohibits animal abuse. No idea, but something worth looking into and something, that if used, has to be carefully targeted to the right audience without causing blowback which can be said of any psyop campaign.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Let's tell them all of our rounds have been dipped in pig blood.

[Peregrino]

Let's tell them all of our rounds have been dipped in pig blood.


Danger Will Robinson, Danger!!! Didn't the Brits get caught up in something like that a long time ago in India? ;) (Sepoy Mutiny, Hindus, & beef tallow.) Talk about negative effects of propoganda and "blowback". Between COL M's observation about the diversity of Islam and our own demonstrated ineptitude when it comes to (targeting, designing, implementing, and adjusting) Psyop campaigns I'm not sure it would be worth the effort/risk. (That's not a slap on the Psyop nuggers, it's an observation about the BS they go through to get a campaign approved and implemented, especially the hurdles at echelons above reality. I hope it's better than it used to be but in my experience anything State can screw up - they will.) Interesting potentials here for quality discussion. :munchin Peregrino

[REMFlt]

RL,
That plan backfired for the British in India, when the "insurgents" spread rumors among Muslim soldiers that the British used lard from pigs to grease their weapons, and spread rumors among indian soldiers that they were greased with cow fat. Considering we're trying to establish Iraqi security forces, I think that would blow up in our faces... Pergrino beat me to it.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Interesting. I've been googling, and every source I've found says that the rounds were greased with both beef and pig tallow, and that the troops had to bite something off them, which obviously would be a problem for a hindu or muslim.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/in/IndianMu.html

Not sure the situation is the same, but I understand the risk you've identified. OK, who else has a proposal?

[37F5V]

I haven't been to Iraq or Afghanistan in some time, but Colonel Moroney and Perigrino (especially the comments about the B.S. that the Troops go through just to try and do their jobs) are correct in my estimation. The problem is that it is quite dangerous to target Islam as a whole, any such blanket action would surely blow up in our faces.

The Lion was mentioned by Colonel Moroney and was infact used to some extent when I was in Iraq in 03. I believe they refered to their T-72's as "Lions of the Desert" as far back as Desert Storm. Many of our appeals to Iraqi military personnel used the Lion in reference to their honor, heart, and will to fight.... Kinda like "you fought the good fight but it's time to pack it in" messages. I honestly can't give you any effects due to the fact that no one stood and fought when our TF showed up at their door. They all kinda melted away.

Attacking the credibility, legitimacy, and competance of our enemies might have better results. I was very pleased to see the video released showing the out-takes of Idiot #1 trying to handle the SAW played on the MSM. The truth hurts....

Bottom line is we need to be more aggressive with our PSYOP and quit playing the reactionary game. The touchy feely stuff by itself is only good to a point.

[lksteve]

WM, Islam is an iconoclastic cosmology...no graven images of anything...it's a slippery slope, thinking about using animal symbology in that context...they aren't real comfortable with anthromorphic camels, either (although when explained to them, they took to Celmi and Mandeeq when it appeared in Rajo during Restore Hope...while printed images of animals (and people, for that matter) are sensitive, written images, in the form of poetry, seemed to be accepted...while in Somalia, one of the better programs we had started with a poetry contest...once we had some winners, we also had a pretty good idea of what sort of phrasing and word pictures, if you will, could work toward our ends...we used the poems we received as templates for future products and campaigns...Radio Rajo was somewhat successful in putting out our message, in many respects, due to the "favored" affect of words over images...

when it comes to religious symbols, i would be hesitant to use them in an area where i did not have a trusted, native speaking believer as an advisor...

my $0.02...

[JMI]

Psyops?

There is only one thing they undersdtand besides VIOLENCE, and that is :


MONEY!

[JMI]

I do not know how you gentleman do it, when eveyone around you is saying it is about money and violence, and your mission is to combat that in villages or towns or forests that are populated with individuals demanding more violence and money.

The idea that men like you can negotiate with those "chiefs" while risking not only yourself but your men allows men like me to wonder if we can capture what you do ------- in a book, or a website, or lightening in a bottle!!!

[Hagen]

Excuse me a moment. Now I don't claim to be an expert on the Islamic faith but what about the horse? Now I did a little bit of searching and found this transcript. The last quote is from the Qur'an I believe and the first two are from a website on what you should and should not eat in the Muslim culture but it still fits, especially since horse is "needed for Jihad".


"As far as the consumption of horse-meat is concerned, Imam Abu Hanifa (Allah have mercy on him) considers is somewhat disliked (makruh tanzihan) due to its honour and due to the fact that a horse is needed in Jihad. Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad (Allah have mercy on them both) consider it Halal, and it is said that Imam Abu Hanifa also retreated to this opinion. Thus, it would be permitted to consume horse-meat, although better to avoid.

With regards to the meat of a donkey and mule, Allah Most High says:

“And (He has created) horses, mules, and donkeys, for you to ride and use for show; and He has created (other) things of which you have no knowledge.” (Surah al-Nahl, V: 8)"


There are other animals in the site which you may want to look at so here is the site, hope it helps: http://www.eat-halal.com/articles/fiqh.shtml

[uboat509]

If this doesn't scare the crap out of them then nothing will.

6151

SFC W

[x SF med]

Good God Uboat - that scared me - gotta go wash my eyes out.

Islam is a tough theology to combat - because it is so mutable - there are the arch conservatives all the way to the non-practicing followers - kinda reminds me of the RC church in that respect, and think about it like trying to find a one size fits all psyop campaign to fight the Vatican... and all of the different orders and belief systems attendant to it. would that work? True there is a single set of icons that are near and dear to the majority of Catholics and other Christians - but the deep seated beliefs are mutable. (trying to play advocus diablii for the argument).

[Roguish Lawyer]

If this doesn't scare the crap out of them then nothing will.

6151

SFC W

LMAO!

[smp52]

Interesting. I've been googling, and every source I've found says that the rounds were greased with both beef and pig tallow, and that the troops had to bite something off them, which obviously would be a problem for a hindu or muslim.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/in/IndianMu.html


Pardon my intrusion. I don't have much to add with regards to the primary question at hand, but I was schooled in India from 2nd through 10th grade, so I can add a bit to discussion of the Sepoy Mutiny (1857 uprsing/rebellion). It was passed as 'fact' in India that the cases were coated with grease made from pigs or cows. Different sources say either it was rumor, or only a few were made with animal fat before the mistake was corrected.

The gun used was an Enfield rifle-musket where troops had to tear the cartridge case open to pour powder. Paper cases were coated with grease to water-proof them. I looked around and found that the same P53 Enfield (http://www.nps.gov/vick/interp/lhrifle.htm) was also used by armies in our Civil War.

[Monsoon65]

Initially, what we were broadcasting was the "surrender or we'll kill you" messages. Usually speeches from the UN or Bush, images of Iraqi troops being taken care of during the First Gulf War.

Later on, the message was the "winning the hearts and minds". US troops helping the people, building hospitals, schools, etc.

Now, it's "trust your own Iraqi security forces", pride in their own troops/military and their accomplishments, turning in terrorists.

There really didn't seem to be much Islam involved in the broadcasts at all.

[dedeppm]

I was fortunate enough to take an upper-level course on Iraqi politics last semester taught by a dr. adeed dawisha (if the name sounds familiar, he's occasionally on the news as an Iraq specialist, and his aunt was on the news awhile back telling anti-war protestors to "go to hell" for not supporting the prez) and he touched on something that i think applies here, in a convoluted sort of way.

Saddam was continually searching for ways to "frame" himself or his actions to his own people in order to maintain their support. He sold the war against Iran by emphasizing it as an Arab struggle against the Persians, ignoring the religious element completely because the enemy was practicing the same religion. This was easy for him to do, seeing as he was very secular. A few years later, he framed the gulf war as one os Islam against the infidels, and even began closing nightclubs and bars in Baghdad to appease religious conservatives. Finally, during the rebellion and the years following, he emphasized tribal identities in order to hang onto power.

I agree with Col. Moroney then that we can't find a "one-size fits all" approach to psyops or CA. I think this demonstrates the need to adapt to different situations with different approaches.