.357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 GAP, and now 45/40 H&K!

[mugwump]

[Team Sergeant, do not ban me. No USPs were injured in the production of this story - at least I hope not. I have nothing against H&K, H&K hats, .40 USPs, .45 USPs, or squeaky boots. In fact a full size .45 USP (not tactical) will be my next pistol.]

I don't have any really good stories but I'll start this one in the traditional manner anyway: So there I was...

My godson is on block leave and he came in for a visit last week. What a great kid -- hard as woodpecker lips, sharp as a tack, and everyone instantly likes him: men, women, kids, dogs. Anyway, we are the only ones at just about the only pistol range left in N. Illinois playing "spinner for dinner" which is sort of a combination of musical chairs, poker, weak-hand Mozambique drills and FTF drills with snap caps. Whoever loses pays for dinner. Due to a brilliant psych-out move on my part, the godson has one round in the 8 zone and I'm up.

In walks another shooter, so CRAP! that ends the game -- house rules per the range boss. The guy looks like Diamondback Tactical barfed all over him -- 5.11 shirt/pants, some kind of molle tactical range bag festooned with pouches and patches, really squeaky tan high-speed boots of some kind, and a H&K ball cap. He sneers at my red Converse All-Stars ("Like Cadillacs on Yo' Feet!") and my pinkish "Girls Soccer Association" good luck hat. That hat was pivotal to a first place finish when my daughter was 8 I'll have you know and, as my godson says, it takes a brave man to wear a hat like that. Smart kid.

Anyway, we continue to load each other's mags with random snap caps and crank out 2-1 drills from various angles. I hit three snap caps in a row and I'm frantically slap-rack-click'ing my way through the mag and muttering about my hat when someone lays a hand on my shoulder. Now, I've finally got a live round in my 229 and I'm so startled I jerk it off the paper.

I drop the hammer, set the gun down, turn around and find Mr. HSLD, who proceeds to tell me the reason I'm having "so much trouble with my gun" is because I'm limp wristing it! Or maybe it's my Sig, they are notorious for having problems like that. I should get a USP .40 like him. Also, I'm not squaring up to the target. He's willing to give me some instruction if I'd like. Now I may be wearing a pink hat, but I'm 6'4" and 230 and my wrists are plenty stiff enough, thank you very much. He must not have noticed us rooting around for snap caps, or that there were two ragged holes in the COM and head of the target I was using.

After politely telling him I'll continue to muddle through on my own, Mr. HSLD decides to change positions from the end of the line to right next to me. He starts banging away at his target with little effect. WTF? Is he keeping an eye on me? Has the pink hat given him the impression I'm batting for the other team? Anywho, I take my hat off just in case and continue to load up a mag for my GS. I need another snap cap and I start kicking brass around on the floor, when I spy something weird. Then another one falls and spins in front of me. Picking it up I see...

5988

OMG! Mr. HSLD is firing .40 S&W in a .45 USP!!! I pick up a few cases, give the godson the high sign and we both mosey on out to the front desk. The range manager looks at the hulls, hits the roof, flicks the lights, and yells "CEASE FIRE" via a speaker system I never knew they had. We busy ourselves looking at targets and the toes of our shoes and such while he goes in to drag the idjit out. They come out, we go in to pack up, and when the range boss is trigger-locking our pistols (don't ask, Illinois) HSLD is whining that "operators do it all the time, it causes massive tumbling." ISYN.

That's it. That's my idiot at the range story. I paid for dinner -- Steak and Shake. And, my hat ended up in the godson's range bag, I swear by mistake. So now I don't have my lucky hat and he says it was a Freudian move -- I was threatened by Mr. HSLD moving positions and I'm not secure in my sexual orientation. Punk kid.

[HOLLiS]

LOL, I have found some cases, 44Mag, which were fired in a 45 colt, I'll have to take a picture. Same thing 44 mag at the base 45 at the mouth of the case.

[mugwump]

LOL, I have found some cases, 44Mag, which were fired in a 45 colt, I'll have to take a picture. Same thing 44 mag at the base 45 at the mouth of the case.

What kind of hat was the guy wearing?

[Team Sergeant]

[ They come out, we go in to pack up, and when the range boss is trigger-locking our pistols (don't ask, Illinois) HSLD is whining that "operators do it all the time, it causes massive tumbling." ISYN.


That's one for the books..... and the reason you will not find me on public ranges (most of the time)..... Seems you found the Forest Gump of pistol marksmanship.

TS

[The Reaper]

LOL, I have found some cases, 44Mag, which were fired in a 45 colt, I'll have to take a picture. Same thing 44 mag at the base 45 at the mouth of the case.

That could have a very unhappy ending, depending on the .44 Mag load and the .45 weapon.

I would imagine that Keith's original .44 Magnum load of 22 grains of 2400 with a 250 grain bullet on top in a .45 Colt SAA might cause a catastrophic failure.

TR

[Bob1984]

Deleted for exceeding the stupidity limit.

[mugwump]

Very...odd that someone would fire .40 in a .45 on purpose. Completely different chamber pressures between the two rounds. I have a friend who owns a lever-action in .35 Remington. He thought his rifle was a .30-30 and it is a well-used, old rifle (Marlin, IIRC).

He found out that his rifle was chambered in .35 when he ended up with a blown .30-30 case, split down the middle and with a blown primer. The blown case completely locked up the rifle's action. The rifle was examined and successfully repaired by a gunsmith and he learned from the experience.

I cannot imagine why someone would intentionally fire incorrect ammo in a weapon.
The "tumbling" thing has got to be one of the worst ballistic theories I have ever heard. What good is a bullet that isn't properly stabilized ?

Yikes, your friend was lucky.

It was total BS, he didn't even know what caliber USP he had -- he told me it was a .40. Mr. HSLD was just all hat and no cattle, as they say down Texas way.

[Team Sergeant]

I cannot imagine why someone would intentionally fire incorrect ammo in a weapon.
The "tumbling" thing has got to be one of the worst ballistic theories I have ever heard. What good is a bullet that isn't properly stabilized ?

Bob,

Never let it be said that one cannot overstate the obvious.
Thanks Bob.

TS

[HOLLiS]

I need to figure how to do macro on my camera, I will take a picture of it. My quess he maybe had a Blackhawk. A first generation colt would have been a nasty mess.

I need to check a 40 S&W in a 45 acp barrel. With rimed cartriges aslong as it chambers and does not fall through it will fire. 35 remington is not a rimmed case. I will look later, I think I have some 35 remington brass in my shop, I sold the rifle.


That could have a very unhappy ending, depending on the .44 Mag load and the .45 weapon.

I would imagine that Keith's original .44 Magnum load of 22 grains of 2400 with a 250 grain bullet on top in a .45 Colt SAA might cause a catastrophic failure.

TR

[mugwump]

I need to check a 40 S&W in a 45 acp barrel. With rimed cartriges aslong as it chambers and does not fall through it will fire.



40/45 aren't rimmed either. I assumed that that the extractor was holding the .40 round in place. The primer was struck well off center.

[Pete]

All I can do is shake my head at the range story.

It appears that every time I go up to the Rod and Gun Club range at Ft Bragg I see something odd.

While for the most part everybody is polite and safe there is that 5% you just look at and shake your head.

New black powder shooters are fun. Most don't have a bullet puller their first few times to the range. Thats a thing you generally don't "have" the first time you "need" it.

[The Reaper]

If by odd, you mean seriously unsafe, I see the same thing on my visits to McKellars. I hate to say it, but that range needs a safety walking the line full-time, coaching, and sending people home.

Both of the past two times I have been out there, I have been not just swept but had the muzzles of loaded weapons pointed at me and held there by new shooters.

When I protested while moving to cover, I was told by one (using the pistol as a pointer), "Don't worry so much, the safety is on".

Since both times, they were young ladies, I did not offer them the same corrective action I might have if they had been men. I did explain that was a violation of basic gun safety and courtesy.

You do have to wonder if these people were also given the keys to a car with a full tank of gas and told to get out on the street and learn how to drive.

IIRC, that range was temporarily closed down a few years ago after a Major's wife shot herself in the foot on the line. Almost every day it is open, with the range officer sitting in the office, it is a tick away from the same thing happening again.

TR

[HOLLiS]

40/45 aren't rimmed either. I assumed that that the extractor was holding the .40 round in place. The primer was struck well off center.

Mug, that would be my guess too, something like that.

TR, ugg...... One would expect more from a military range.

[The Reaper]

TR, ugg...... One would expect more from a military range.

They weren't military, they were guests of military personnel.

TR

[Team Sergeant]

TR, ugg...... One would expect more from a military range.

Just because one wears a uniform does not mean they are efficient or effective with a hand-held or shoulder fired weapon or even knowledgeable concerning range procedures.......

Never assume when it comes to weapons handling.....

TS

[mugwump]

Same range: About a year ago I saw a guy with a brand new lightweight snubby who I assumed was firing rounds w/ too heavy a bullet or a failed crimp. A round backed out of the case and locked up the cylinder. He swept the whole range as he tugged and slapped away at it and then pointed it directly at his own face while tugging on the hammer and manually trying to rotate the cylinder. Finger was still in the guard, of course. I can anticipate the "Darwin Award" comments, but I just couldn't...I screamed loud enough to wake the dead (I think it was "AAAAAAHHHHH!!", not the best command but all I could come up with on short notice), ordered him to "Just put the gun down!" and literally pulled him off the line and back into the staging area. It got ugly fast with 3rd-grade pushing-- he was there with a date and I'd "humiliated him." I asked him how humilated he'd be with a 158 grain round nose in his brain pan, but it didn't even register.

[Pete]

If by odd, you mean seriously unsafe, I see the same thing on my visits to McKellars. ....
TR

Every weapon I take up there has been torn down, cleaned and put back together by myself. While bolt actions are pretty much the same on outward operation the semi auto group, pistols and rifles, can have some individual quirks as you well know.

It appears that some people out there are shooting weapons "right out of the box". Its clear they are uncomfortable with loading, firing and clearing of the weapon. Throw in the girlfriend trying to hold it with two fingers and I feel like ducking.

One guy had his wife up there along with his collection of fancy large cal. bolt action rifles. He had her set up at the rear of one of the tables. She was shooting the rifles straight off her shoulder. Bang, the rifle would knock her back and her eyes would squinch up. She was not having and fun but she was game.

Another time about 4 young guys had an M1 Garand a few tables down. They were shooting it for a while and the next time I glanced down that way one of them had the bolt back and a pair of pliers down inside the clip well. Heavy shoulder work going on. Shortly after that it was back in the case and they moved on to something else. I can only guess that it failed to eject the clip and they were trying to force it out.:eek:

I've had real good luck with the people on the tables next to mine. It appears we operate the same way. Give the people on the line a good look over before picking a table.

Pete

[airborneFSO]

Reading this thread as I am off to the range...

Short story, was at the range maybe 2 weeks ago, another guy I know was there with some friends. I showed up and we compared weapons, after this he went into a big speal about how safe he was and so on. I was there maybe 15 mins when I was staring down the barrel of a 1911. After the initial shock, I hit the guys weapon out of his hand and followed with a WTF. After he realized what he did, he could not apologize enough, as I always do I told him to go and apologize to my wife and daughter, he was stunned.

About 3 days after this incident, I was told that this same guy had an AD in his apt. and shot and killed his cat, same weapon....Not much more to say.

Maybe on my way out the door I'll strap on the ACH and plates just in case.

Wish me luck.

[Bob1984]

Deleted for exceeding the stupidity limit.

[Pete]

...About 3 days after this incident, I was told that this same guy had an AD in his apt. and shot and killed his cat, same weapon....Not much more to say.....

Hmmm, I need to think on this one. Based on the range bit I would say he is unsafe but the cat deal? Ya' know it might not have been an AD. He just may have come up with a weak cover story.

Pete

[The Reaper]

I have not considered wearing body armor to the civilian range till recently.

I have a set that should cover all of the handguns I see being fired there, but I draw the line at wearing a helmet.:D

One thing I do watch when the line is cold and we are going downrange is people handling guns or setting up on the line.

It should also be common courtesy for semi shooters to try not to set up to the immediate left of others. An HK-91 or G3 can cover the far end of the line with a hot shower of brass.

TR

[Team Sergeant]

You saved that guy's life, and that guy just didn't figure it out (damn ego trips). I believe my reaction in your shoes would have been similar and I would have been quite frustrated with his response.
:eek:
People like this are the biggest threat to legal gun ownership, IMO.

I even get a little bothered when children point cap guns at me and I usually ask them to please point it in a safer direction.

Bob,

"Pointing out the obvious" will become monotonous real quick.

Do I make myself clear Bob?

Thanks Bob.

Team Sergeant
Not afraid to have cap guns pointed at me.....

[Bob1984]

Bob,

"Pointing out the obvious" will become monotonous real quick.

Do I make myself clear Bob?

Thanks Bob.

Team Sergeant
Not afraid to have cap guns pointed at me.....


Perfectly clear, Team Sergeant. I apologize. I will refrain from further commentary.

[mugwump]

It's a strange phenomenon: I see newbies all the time who have spent major bucks on expensive firearms yet won't pony up $75 for the NRA basic firearms course. I've seen so much rank stupidity that I'd consider making such a course a prerequisite of ownership, except for the fact that the "anti" crowd would inevitably push the coursework up to 200 hours.

When I was growing up the local cops were mostly WWII vets and they made a point of teaching safe weapons handling to any kid who showed an interest; I can't load a pistol without performing a press check -- I can thank Officer Pierson for that. Those days are gone. Now, many of the young LEOs I see at the range appear uncomfortable with their weapons.

Blue State blues. :boohoo