View Full Version : What 18D ISN'T...
Eagle5US
04-19-2006, 18:18
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same:confused: "
I explained to him that his perception wasn't quite on track. What was somewhat amazing were his OTHER perceptions regarding his slotted profession...18D.
From his account, he was told these things at SFAS by various cadre. Please allow me to clear them a bit, as many of them have to do with a transition to PA school or other medical specialty.
1. After 18D, he was gauranteed selction to PA school.-FALSE
2. If he so desired within 2 years of graduation from the 18D course-he was authorized to CHALLENGE the National PA certification exam and didn't have to even go to PA school. FALSE
3. 18 Active Duty 18D's are gauranteed slots in PA school every year. FALSE
4. 18D graduates need only 2 years of additional training to become a Veterinarian FALSE
5. 18D grads can work in any hospital in the United States in the capacity of an RN or PA based on their 18D credentials FALSE
There were more, but he was most adamant with these issues, even had them writtne in his little notebook that he brought out of his bag to argue his points.
Guys, if you want to be a PA, Nurse, or a Vet...go to school for those things. If you want to be an SF Medical Provider-attend the training, learn good things so you can do GREAT things.
Want to be an 18D? Then BE the best 18D that ever threw a stitch, floated teeth, or rolled the bones.
Eagle
Eagle5US,
I ran into an identical young man today and he had the exact same ideas. I explained the prereqs for PA school and the application process. I directed him here to research and your post should set him straight.
NousDefionsDoc
04-19-2006, 18:52
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
I hate that Boat Company shit.
Wish I had been there...;)
Eagle5US
04-19-2006, 19:21
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
I hate that Boat Company shit.
Kindler, gentler...I friggin hate it and I DON'T do it well. I know-I've been counseled on it:rolleyes:
Eagle
Bill Harsey
04-19-2006, 20:56
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
Wish I had been there...;)
NDD,
That would be worthy of video.
That and when this new guy said that to Eagle5US.
Let me color in just a bit more of the picture, Eagle5US was gracious enough to let me stay at his house a few weeks ago. I notice little things that add up to thoughts like "This bubba played college football or wrestled heavyweight" but never said it out loud.
Maybe it was the new camo Eagle was wearing that took away that simplest of obvious character judgments which is the "can this guy kick my ass and how fast is it going to happen" thing.
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same:confused: "
Bit off subject but...
When I instructed on the 18C Committee, I had a formation at the beginning of my Block of instruction and at the end. My instruction was in the middle of the course, so Students seem to get "loose" in their ways. I would look at the students Uniform, Hair, ETC. Well, I never thought of it as BS stuff, its the basic soldiering things that must if not all of us would (& should) do. I had them on Thursday or Friday, that when my block started, so it was good because on Monday I would have a Re-inspection followed by a Pop Quiz. Amazing thing was how many students just blow off the fact that there boots, uniform, hair, whatever was still soup. After I had told them to get the stuff fixed. I relieved about 5-6 Sq Ldrs mainly for them being soup. Lucky the Committee computer already had pre-done DA 4856 Counseling forms for just about everything.
The sad fact was I got some "heat" from a few of the instructors. Most came from guys that had their own problems. But, they just didn't get the whole mentorship thing?? :confused:
Just like Eagle and Croooz running into these Soldiers. I feel this is and has been the thought process with future SF soldiers. Maybe not all, but most. Just like guy coming into SF prior to GWOT, thinking SF was all "Door Kicking". Some soldiers (18X or In-service) have this idea that we are this first name no rank branch. Instructors (SFQC) and the first team drive how these "young" future QP will be. I wish more QP would put a Size Whatever in the forth point of contact when its needed.
My Rant and .02.
Kyobanim
04-20-2006, 06:39
I can't even imagine what would have happened if a troop had ever addressed The Reaper as "Yo man" in front of us.
I'd pay real money to see this or any other instance like this.
Slantwire
04-20-2006, 11:09
Some soldiers (18X or In-service) have this idea that we are this first name no rank branch.
Even if it were true, wouldn't that egalitarianism be restricted to tabbed guys? As is frequently pointed out on the SFAS board, passing Selection isn't the end of the road by any stretch.
I can tell you for a FACT! Especially here in California...
If you want to further your career after 18D. You WILL be attending some courses...college that is!:lifter
Take care.
The Reaper
04-20-2006, 14:58
If you got his name, I will start a pool on his successfully completing the SFQC.
I will give odds.
I did have a civilian gate guard with long hair and a beard say "Hey Dude" to me one morning when they converted the checkpoints at Bragg. After I discovered that there were no military personnel at the checkpoint, I called the MP Desk Sergeant and reviewed his instructions to the guards reference addressing military personnel. I hoped to speak to the young man again when I came through the next morning, but for some reason, I never saw him there again.
I wish him more luck in the fast food industry, where his talents could be better utilized.
TR
Surgicalcric
04-20-2006, 18:36
...Students seem to get "loose" in their ways. I would look at the students Uniform, Hair, ETC...
Might not want to visit SWMG(A) ( JSOMT-C) then. You might have a coronary, but you would be in good hands. :D
...I wish him more luck in the fast food industry, where his talents could be better utilized.
Sir:
I think the fast food industry is where they get some of those guys.
Crip
x SF med
06-15-2006, 10:35
Guys, to this day, I would never think of addressing an unknown active duty SF SNCO or O as "hey Dude". Unless it was someone I had served with and knew the guy, I wouldn't do it to any AD soldier in uniform.
I'm trying to think what any of my Det COs, Co COs, Team Daddies, or SGMs would have done to me had I walked up and addressed them in that manner, unless invited to do so in the team house, never outside the team. My Co SGM was George H. "Joe" Higgs - I would have been hamburger had I ever addressed him as Joe, and he split my time between the ODB and ODA pretty well in half. When the Scuba Team Daddy (Frankie Dooms) took over as SGM - he still allowed those of us who had been around to call him "Top", but that was a privelege outside of the Co HQ. (any names above are no longer on the active rolls, and should not constitute an OPSEC violation).
In the Co Area, Team house or IFac - things might get a little looser - inside the team, and inside the Company was different from the rest of the world. still professional, but looser. In the world we were expected to be professionals, and treat senior soldiers with the utmost respect.
That is pretty much how it was for me and within my Team. In the Teamhouse or out in the field, we could address the CO, XO and Team Daddy by thier nicknames or first names. Anywhere else it was pure Military Courtesy. That was ONLY within my Team. Only after permission to do so was given from the top down. As x-sf-med stated. I wouldn't even imagine addressing an Officer or higher ranking NCO in any other way then was taught to me in Basic. Makes me wonder what they are being taught in just Basic alone. Besides, I never use the word 'dude' ;)
I ran into a young SPC today at Waller Hall during my outprocessing from Ft. Lewis. After seeing my uniform, he (the E-4) looked at me (the CPT) and said:
"Yo man-I'm goin Special Forces too-on my way to jump school and the Q course right now".
"Really?", I mused..."Congradualtions on passing SFAS. Tell me, how far do you think you are going to get addressing folks senior to you by saying "Yo Man""?
He stared at me rather blankly...like my dog does when he doesn't understand what I am telling him what to do and he cocks his head to one side...
"Sir?" he says totally confused..."but I'm going to be SF-we're all on the same team...there is no rank structure in SF...everyone is equal, all the same:confused: "
I explained to him that his perception wasn't quite on track. What was somewhat amazing were his OTHER perceptions regarding his slotted profession...18D.
From his account, he was told these things at SFAS by various cadre. Please allow me to clear them a bit, as many of them have to do with a transition to PA school or other medical specialty.
1. After 18D, he was gauranteed selction to PA school.-FALSE
2. If he so desired within 2 years of graduation from the 18D course-he was authorized to CHALLENGE the National PA certification exam and didn't have to even go to PA school. FALSE
3. 18 Active Duty 18D's are gauranteed slots in PA school every year. FALSE
4. 18D graduates need only 2 years of additional training to become a Veterinarian FALSE
5. 18D grads can work in any hospital in the United States in the capacity of an RN or PA based on their 18D credentials FALSE
There were more, but he was most adamant with these issues, even had them writtne in his little notebook that he brought out of his bag to argue his points.
Guys, if you want to be a PA, Nurse, or a Vet...go to school for those things. If you want to be an SF Medical Provider-attend the training, learn good things so you can do GREAT things.
Want to be an 18D? Then BE the best 18D that ever threw a stitch, floated teeth, or rolled the bones.
Eagle
I have to throw out the BS flag on this SP4's story. None of the Cadre at SFAS talk about these type of things with a student. Matter of fact, they limit their conversation with candidates on purpose.
I say this because I was at Camp Mackall with SFAS Students and never heard this type of crap mentioned by the cadre.
An 18D is not a PA. A PA can not engage the enemy. You want to kill bad guys? Go 18D. You want to have a career treating sick people? Go PA.
Let me say for the record, PA's have more training than an 18D. Let me also say 18D's are the heart and soul of a Team.
Try deploying without one.
Doc
The guy sounded profoundly stupid at worst or without any situational awareness at all at best. I have to agree with DOC and call BS.
Sinister
06-18-2006, 08:18
It never ceases to amaze me that some folks will have an opinion of what it is that makes an SF Soldier.
It's hilarious sometimes to see the looks on some peoples' faces when a guy they've known for years who sports a big handlebar moustache and maybe a ponytail or mullet, who always dresses in dockers and polo shirts shows up one day clean-shaven with whitewalls in class-As with fruit salad over the shoulder.
Same man, different wrapper. Has nothing to do with Quiet Professionalism.
When my 9-year old says some day he wants to be a Soldier, a diver, an engineer, a dentist, a driver, a free-faller, and a helicopter pilot, a lot of adults will smile and say "That's nice." Heck, I've had guys on my ODAs with all those tickets and life-experience that made me look like I just graduated from day-care.
It always brings a ray of sunshine into my life when an NCO steps in and makes on-the-spot corrections. Not to be an asshole, but to teach and discipline right then and there.
Ah, to be an old fart and appreciate the phrases, "Let me explain the rank structure of the United States Army to you, Skippy," and "Is that space I see between your heels?"
NousDefionsDoc
06-18-2006, 08:33
Five-O check your PMs
Doc,
It's a common misconception that is rampant among 18x's. Being an 18x myself I seem to recall being told things along the same lines from my recruiter and the SF liason that came to visit us in Benning.
It makes for a good line for the kid to tell his folks.
Gruzzen.
The intial post here was to clarify or provide information regarding civilian counterpart qualifications or tracks for those interested in the 18D MOS. Recruiters can have a lot to say. I was attempting to provide accurate and timely information to some uniformed soldiers. It was apparent that some of the information being put out wasn't accurate. My intial post was deleted so I don't see a need to regurgitate the information.
x SF med
07-18-2006, 14:20
f
Moose-
Fill out your profile.
Introduce yourself in the correct thread
Read all the stickies
Be very glad I got to you first.
Eagle5US
07-18-2006, 14:40
Moose-
Fill out your profile.
Introduce yourself in the correct thread
Read all the stickies
Be very glad I got to you first.
Actually,
I gave him much of the same advice a couple of days ago and edited his post accordingly-
Appareantly he felt the need to retract my edit instead of following instructions:rolleyes:
Eagle
x SF med
07-18-2006, 15:06
Eagle-
Wait until NDD, TR, TS, COL Jack, DOC, et al. get to him. The only thing in his profile is 'soldier' - he's going to wish he wasn't if they track him down. FTFSI is too good for him.:boohoo I believe the XX with extra adipose layers is warming up for the encore chanson, n'est pas? I believe it is going to be "La vie en rose"
NousDefionsDoc
07-18-2006, 17:51
Mr. Moose,
You have until PT time tomorrow (0530 CCGT) to unfook yourself and comply with the instructions given you by my Brothers.
x SF med
07-19-2006, 06:58
And now for the encore presentation....
Rucksack in the Hall,
Awaiting pickup,
Snuffy's gonna bawl....
NousDefionsDoc
07-19-2006, 15:09
Mr. Moose,
You are a No Va at this station. FTFSI. You may attempt a re-test at a later date.
x SF med
07-19-2006, 15:14
It seems to me we have an 'OH&TM' with Mr Moose (Bullwinkle??)
Even after an extra 12h from NDD.
Eagle5US
07-19-2006, 18:43
Yeah well...
I have e-mail from him now asking about my credos:rolleyes:
Eagle
x SF med
07-19-2006, 20:02
Eagle-
I can see it now:
Hey dude - are you really SF - prove it to me - tell me who you are, what you've done, and the teams you've been on.
What a friggin scream, he's vetting you. Kids got balls and no brains - send him to the 2/75 or 82.:munchin
scout3234
08-15-2006, 19:32
kind of off the subject, but here goes, national guard soldiers go to basic with the regular army guys, so they are being taught the same crap. or better yet, not remembering the same crap that they are being taught. weve had guys come back and have no clue how many types of ambushes there are. by the saem token, i have a 1SG who believes there is a near, far, and deliberate ambush. how exactly do i answer that lol
beedlesw
08-16-2006, 12:17
kind of off the subject, but here goes, national guard soldiers go to basic with the regular army guys, so they are being taught the same crap. or better yet, not remembering the same crap that they are being taught. weve had guys come back and have no clue how many types of ambushes there are. by the saem token, i have a 1SG who believes there is a near, far, and deliberate ambush. how exactly do i answer that lol
there are near, far, deliberate, L shaped, linear and pretty much any kind of ambush somebody wants to think up. My PSG is fond of saying 'there is an infinite number of solutions to any given tactical problem', and there is an infinite number of tactics, techniques, and procedures, SOPs and ways of doing things that people have come up with over the years, some just work better than others. In my experience they don't just give people the rank of 1SG because they ask for it, he's been around a while and knows a good deal more than yourself, so you might want to do a lot less smack talking about your senior NCOs and a little more listening and researching, but thats just me.
he's been around a while and knows a good deal more than yourself, so you might want to do a lot less smack talking about your senior NCOs and a little more listening and researching, but thats just me.
+1
RockyFarr
08-16-2006, 17:19
Ya mean we can't get grandfathered as nierusurgeons!?!?!? My recruiter lied to me.
BMT (RIP)
08-16-2006, 18:00
Rocky your paperwork must not of been processed at CCS. :p
BMT
NousDefionsDoc
08-16-2006, 18:06
Ya mean we can't get grandfathered as nierusurgeons!?!?!? My recruiter lied to me.
Welcome back Sir.
x SF med
08-17-2006, 07:20
Ya mean we can't get grandfathered as nierusurgeons!?!?!? My recruiter lied to me.
COL Farr! Herr Doktor, thanks for all of the lovely ways you reinforced training during my reclass in 85, but you were not very far removed from teams at that point (only a CPT) - and Knew what we needed. I'm still kind of upset about the "Licorice Dx".
Do you have a TDI yet, or are you still driving the old gasser VWs?
Eagle5US
08-17-2006, 07:31
Ya mean we can't get grandfathered as nierusurgeons!?!?!? My recruiter lied to me.
Nice to see you safe and on the boards again Sir.
Eagle
Back in the 70's, certain States did allow SF medics to sit for that State's nursing licenses. 4 of my surviving Ft. Sam classmates did exactly that and progressed (under their own power) to an M.D. Those of you who attended last year's SOMA convention in Tampa heard the keynote speaker, Richard Carmona, M.D., the U.S. Surgeon General whose story you can read on the Surgeon General website. 91B4S to RN to MD. We thought he had the record for furthest advancement (E-5 to Admiral) but his boss had him beat by one grade.
In addition, many SF medics were selected for PA training by individual physicians. It must be noted that time have changed and licensing is far more controlled these days. The dramatic television shows all had a show in which a young former medic working as a PA is mistakenly accused of various crimes by nurses ( "Cut the patient's throat" v. performing a crico-thyroid puncture was a common one. - anyone remember "med lab" @ Ft. Sam?) Case resolved and everyone lives happily ever after. `
As far as egalitarianism within the team / Group I can remember one young Captain who tried to welcome a Colonel to his camp by saying "Hi, I'm (name)" and extending his hand for a handshake. That was his last time that he tried that.
After getting my "S" suffix and reporting to my team, I was asked if I knew how to play penochle and told to come back when I had learned. I never called my team SMAJ anything but SMAJ. Officers all had the same first name: Sir.
Team Sergeant
03-09-2007, 18:38
Back in the 70's, certain States did allow SF medics to sit for that State's nursing licenses. 4 of my surviving Ft. Sam classmates did exactly that and progressed (under their own power) to an M.D. Those of you who attended last year's SOMA convention in Tampa heard the keynote speaker, Richard Carmona, M.D., the U.S. Surgeon General whose story you can read on the Surgeon General website. 91B4S to RN to MD. We thought he had the record for furthest advancement (E-5 to Admiral) but his boss had him beat by one grade.
In addition, many SF medics were selected for PA training by individual physicians. It must be noted that time have changed and licensing is far more controlled these days. The dramatic television shows all had a show in which a young former medic working as a PA is mistakenly accused of various crimes by nurses ( "Cut the patient's throat" v. performing a crico-thyroid puncture was a common one. - anyone remember "med lab" @ Ft. Sam?) Case resolved and everyone lives happily ever after. `
As far as egalitarianism within the team / Group I can remember one young Captain who tried to welcome a Colonel to his camp by saying "Hi, I'm (name)" and extending his hand for a handshake. That was his last time that he tried that.
After getting my "S" suffix and reporting to my team, I was asked if I knew how to play penochle and told to come back when I had learned. I never called my team SMAJ anything but SMAJ. Officers all had the same first name: Sir.
Welcome "Doc". We have a redneck SF vetting process to ensure those that post are in fact SF'ers (due to the large number of wannabes;) ).
If you would be so kind to send any "administrator" a PM with name and dates of service we'll vet you!
Welcome to the board.
Team Sergeant