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So I see the Army has come out with a Sapper Tab...do the groups send 18Cs to Sapper school!
I never went to Ranger school but I did go to Sapper School and it was a total suck fest!
Basenshukai
04-16-2006, 12:07
So I see the Army has come out with a Sapper Tab...do the groups send 18Cs to Sapper school!
I never went to Ranger school but I did go to Sapper School and it was a total suck fest!
Do the SFGs send guys to the Sapper Course? Well, it's not a matter of policy to NOT send a guy there if there is a slot. I don't know that SFG's are MTOE authorized fixed slots per year, however. That is not to say that there are no such slots specifically allocated to an SFG, I just have not heard of it.
Simply put, if a guy really wants to go and there is a slot available - and the time available - then the guy gets orders and goes there. It's no big deal. As long as it is arranged through the SFG "School's NCO" and with the consent of the Chain of Command - like any other course.
I did go to Sapper School at Ft. Lostinthewoods as a 12B but I thought it was a good course for all things "Engineery". (Demo, engineer recons, patrolling, op orders and the like.) If it has stayed true to its origins then it would make a great training cycle for Charlie’s too.
BLUF: The course is not designed for individuals to go to...it's for combat engineer units to send all leaders from team leader up through company commander to it. While we went our highest ranking Spec4 was the company commander, next highest was 1SG, etc in our absence.
The Sapper Leader Course trains selected combat engineer unit leaders in leadership skills, combat engineer and infantry battle drills, and the specialized engineer and infantry techniques required to perform as members of a Sapper Battalion. The course is also designed to build cohesion and esprit de corps by training soldiers in troop leading procedures, demolitions (conventional and expedient), mountaineering operations, aerial operations, airborne operations, foreign weapons, land navigation, waterborne operations and contingency threat. The course culminates in an intense field training exercise that reinforces the use of the battle drills and specialized engineer techniques learned throughout the course.
Dan, yes that is true. When I went it was all the leadership from my Company, from Fire team leader to CO. Of course the 1sg could end up being the M60 ammo bearer and a SPC could be the patrol leader. But we did have some strap hangers that came from ohter Army Engineer units.
I figured they must have made some changes in order to make it eligible for a Tab. When I went through I didn't think it was a "tab worthy course" but it was a good training event.
Do the SFGs send guys to the Sapper Course? Well, it's not a matter of policy to NOT send a guy there if there is a slot. I don't know that SFG's are MTOE authorized fixed slots per year, however. That is not to say that there are no such slots specifically allocated to an SFG, I just have not heard of it.
Simply put, if a guy really wants to go and there is a slot available - and the time available - then the guy gets orders and goes there. It's no big deal. As long as it is arranged through the SFG "School's NCO" and with the consent of the Chain of Command - like any other course.
I came into SF from the Sapper Ldr Det.
To answer your question; while I was there SFG had 5 lots a year, but every class had 5 slots for "Strap Hangers". These mainly came from the 5th Eng & EOBC there on Wood. I had about 4-6ea 18 series guys come through while I was there. Overall the course is better for non-18C on the ODA, this way they are cross trained as 18Cs. Its a Great per-RANGER course, just with a ENG twist.
Sapper Leader Course POC: DSN 581-0823/6225/0819. Comm 573-596 0823/6225/0819. I don't know what the status is now. The whole course has changed since I was there. But yes 18 Series do (did) have slots for the course. As stated, you need a 4187 through your Schools NCO.
Warrior-Mentor
04-20-2006, 14:31
FWIW I've heard good things about the course.
xdude18cw8
04-06-2007, 06:17
We're recommending to young (18C) soldiers with little or no patrolling knowledge to go for more training
wonder if this would be a good training opportunity for 18Xs that have completed SFAS and been selected for 18C but don't have Q date? Of course I have no idea on the program or the time lines but I wonder if those in charge have considered it?
The Reaper
04-07-2007, 08:45
Waaaay back in the day, we had some of the Sapper School cadre go through part of the 18C Course.
These were NCOs and I was not impressed. Their maturity and knowledge were weak. Let's just say that I take a dim view of people grabassing and playing games during training on my demo range.
Maybe things have changed since they got the tab, but from my contact, I would not recommend it.
TR
CAguru06
04-07-2007, 19:44
The Sapper Leaders Course is a great school for any Soldier in my opinion, it is a suck fest but, its a great leadership school. It is also a great tool to get in the mindset for a train up for Ranger School. I went in 2002 when I was an Engineer and it was a hellasious 28 days. It gave me an awesome base for Ranger school.
Would sapper be a good introduction to demo training for the Q course. I have a cycle break coming up and was considering going to either Sapper or Sniper school. They won't let me do Ranger to long:mad:. Since i got selected as a
18C with french and have no demo experience, I figured that Sapper would be a good intro or perhaps foundation for the Q course. Opinions???
Surgicalcric
07-20-2007, 05:01
...18C with french... ...foundation for the Q course. Opinions???
Having just tested out of French I suggest you get started on some self study in French. Believe it or not, French has the worst pass rate in the Schoolhouse. Just not enough time spent in language training with the way the SFQC is designed now.
Best of luck in your future endeavors.
Crip
Would sapper be a good introduction to demo training for the Q course.
No. The Sapper Course is a leadership course for combat engineer units. You need to have demo skills before attending.
The Reaper
07-20-2007, 08:00
Would sapper be a good introduction to demo training for the Q course. I have a cycle break coming up and was considering going to either Sapper or Sniper school. They won't let me do Ranger to long:mad:. Since i got selected as a 18C with french and have no demo experience, I figured that Sapper would be a good intro or perhaps foundation for the Q course. Opinions???
No.
Ernie will teach you everything about demo that you need to know, the way it should be taught.
TR
blue02hd
07-20-2007, 08:09
No.
Ernie will teach you everything about demo that you need to know, the way it should be taught.
TR
!!! LOL !!! I agree there whole heartedly!! Ernie > Sapper School. And he will remember you 8 years later in the middle of a crowd to boot!!
Having just tested out of French I suggest you get started on some self study in French. Believe it or not, French has the worst pass rate in the Schoolhouse. Just not enough time spent in language training with the way the SFQC is designed now.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm coming along pretty nicely in that area. The Rosetta Stone makes it so easy. I've got three to six months before I'm back at Bragg, so I should be at a 1-1 level by then, with a little hard work. :) It's the demo that I feel I'm weak at since I've never messed with it other than sliding a bangalore under a wire obstacle as a PFC. (9 years ago). Just wanted to get a basic understanding to be better prepared. the FM's I've tried to read are jibberish. Kinda like pathfinder material... before you actually go to the school it all those charts and formulas look like greek. But if Reaper says let the instructor teach me the right way that's what I'll do. So Sniper it is.
Thanks again.
Cobra 22
Currently Ernie is teaching TA & not demo. That may change as he leaves TA.
x/S