View Full Version : MP5 Optics Options
zeroalpha
04-02-2006, 04:25
Ok, So...
Looking at Scope / Optics options for the good old HK MP5
Seems to be a bit of info out there, however it all appears to be rather low in detail and quality.
Anyone have experiance in various optics options for the MP5 ?
Majority of usage is of course 'CQB' but there is the odd oppertunity for a longer shot, so do not want to exclude that in the overall picture.
PM's are also acceptable.
The Reaper
04-02-2006, 08:29
Given the operating parameters of the MP5 and the 9mm round, I would say that a long range shot with an MP5 is well within the parameters of any non-magnifying combat optic.
The 5.56mm M-4/M-16 is effective out to 300m. with the "dot sights" (which are the quickest optics for CQB), so clearly, it should suffice for the MP5 within its capabilities.
Given that, I would look at the Aimpoint Comp M2/M3, the EOTech 551/552/553, etc.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
Team Sergeant
04-02-2006, 09:37
Anyone have experiance in various optics options for the MP5 ?
I've got a few years behind an MP5 and a few months behind the optics TR has mentioned. But for pure speed I'd go with th EOTEC 1st or an Aimpoint with a 4MOA dot instead of the 2MOA second.
The only problems I've seen is "dead space" (created by the various optics left and right lense housings) when indexing from tgt to tgt while using an M-4. (1/10 of a second is not much to some, but then again not many bust down doors with real bad men behind them.)
Secondly is the inside to outside light conditions and the need to adjust the optics in order to use them in these varying condtions as there is no "self adjustment". There is a trade-off when using these optics in a CQB mode.
My.02
Before I enter: this is strictly from range time and 3-gun competition use. I have no experience on the two way range. The EOTech, I believe, is superior to the Aimpoint in both CQB and longer range target interdiction. The square, almost TV-like shape of the EOTech provides a bigger field of view than the aimpoint's 30mm tube. No tunnel vision, which is major points if you're shooting for an extended period of time.
The EOTech's reticle gives advantage the Aimpoints dot. The EOTech has a 65 MOA ring circle and a 1 MOA dot. The 65 ring lends itself to quick target acquisition at close range and the 1 minute dot for further out pin-point shooting. The Aimpoint has a 4-2 MOA dot depending on which model you're looking at. The dot provides precise shooting at most distances, but covers a significant portion of the target the further out it is. (If that happens, you're probably better off with a rifle anyway!) Some say the EOTech is cluttered, I do not agree. It is very easy to pick up, much more so than the Aimpoint's single dot.
The EOTech loses in battery life (Latest aimpoint has battery life in the tens of thousands of hours, EOTech is significantly less) and control manipulation (Aimpoints knob-wheel adjustment is faster than the EOTech's up/down push buttons). Aimpoint's setup is the fastest for adjusting brightness.
The first time I shot the EOTech in a practical shotgun course it won me over. For knocking down lead plates in a speed shoot, the 65 ring found them very quickly, and knocked them down. Transitioning to a paper slug target some 70 meters away, the 1 minute dot took over.
You will do well with either system, my preference is the EOTech. Would I prefer it be an all metal unit like the Aimpoint instead of plastic with a metal hood? Yes, but I will do what I can with what is avilable.
My advise to you is try both before you buy. Then get lots of ammunition and practice, practice, practice. Hope this helped.
Heres a pic taken by a crappy photographer. (me) :o
Peregrino
04-05-2006, 18:29
ZA - TR & TS have said everything I could. Personally (like Chris) I'm an EOTech fan. I've been using a 552 on my primary carbine for two + years and wouldn't trade it for anything less than an ACOG. I have spent a fair amount of time using an MP5 as a primary weapon but I've never used optics on one. I think your biggest problems will be mounts and height above the bore. Will you be using the standard H&K claw mount? The times I used it w/G3s I was not impressed but I don't know of any alternatives. You'll have to give us a rundown on the final solution. :munchin Peregrino
militarymoron
04-05-2006, 18:55
(warning: civvie here). the B&T low aimpoint mount is another option. you use the 30mm low rings that come with the aimpoint. it puts the aimpoint low, right on receiver - low enough to see through it and use the irons. much better cheek weld on retractable stock than with the HK claw mount.
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT212621&storeid=1&image=bthkmnts.gif
Peregrino
04-05-2006, 19:28
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT212621&storeid=1&image=bthkmnts.gif
I just been edjumucated ya'll! :D Thanks - I knew there was a reason everybody wanted you around more often. Now we'll have to see what ZA does with the info. Peregrino
zeroalpha
04-06-2006, 06:25
Im thinking EOTech Low Profile Mount, (Maybe the long one?)
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BT212621&storeid=1&image=bthkmnts.gif
with an EOTech 510 AA placed securely on top.... Am I on the right track here guys???
I love this site!
Many thanks to all those who offered advice.
PS - MM, Great site you have also. If I can ever assist in some of our local kit, please let me know what I can do.
Oooo I spy a 'low' mount for the EOTech there. Batteries are a consideration, I don't know what the whole system would fit like in the end, but make sure you can get the AA model on there with rails and everything else you've got.
Stay safe.
zeroalpha
04-06-2006, 07:45
Ok, Didnt think about length at all.
AA batteries ar a lot easier to source than the others, thats why I went for the AA option.
Ill go back and do me some more homework.
militarymoron
04-06-2006, 07:53
peregrino - always glad to be here - thanks for having me. i do check in quite often, but don't post frequently as i have so much more to learn here than i have to contribute. :)
ZA - thanks for the kind words. an eotech won't fit on the low profile aimpoint mount. the aimpoint mount only has a very short section of rail to accept the standard aimpoint ring - it's not an 'open' length of 1913 rail that the eotech needs. if you're going with an eotech, you'll need the BT21222 (eotech mount). i'm pretty sure that the BT2141 LPA long mount will also work, and put the eotech a bit lower than the eotech mount, but call DSA to confirm. either way, you can't use the irons through the eotech as the window is too high.
zeroalpha
04-06-2006, 08:01
MM - Point noted and post edited.
Just realised its 2Am here... I need to got to bed and research this more in the morning... later this morning!
Ok, Didnt think about length at all.
AA batteries ar a lot easier to source than the others, thats why I went for the AA option.
Ill go back and do me some more homework.
Neither did I when I sourced my first EOTech. It restricts your mounting options, IE.. On the M4 Carbine if one has a KAC RAS II with the 'hump', there is not enough space after the hump to mount an AA model, but there is for the other. But, AA batteries are easier to find, cheaper, and lithium AA's are better in cold weather (so I've been told). :)
The Reaper
04-06-2006, 08:24
Neither did I when I sourced my first EOTech. It restricts your mounting options, IE.. On the M4 Carbine if one has a KAC RAS II with the 'hump', there is not enough space after the hump to mount an AA model, but there is for the other. But, AA batteries are easier to find, cheaper, and lithium AA's are better in cold weather (so I've been told). :)
Actually, the 2/3 AAs, the 123s (Surefire flashlight type) are the batteries to use, and IIRC, there is an EOTech model that uses them.
More power, longer life, smaller package, almost the same price as a quality AA, much longer shelf life.
TR
Actually, the 2/3 AAs, the 123s (Surefire flashlight type) are the batteries to use, and IIRC, there is an EOTech model that uses them.
More power, longer life, smaller package, almost the same price as a quality AA, much longer shelf life.
TR
Ahh yes, the new 553 model, those batteries are good stuff. Those of us not at SHOT didn't get to see her! :boohoo
Peregrino
04-06-2006, 08:38
Actually, the 2/3 AAs, the 123s (Surefire flashlight type) are the batteries to use, and IIRC, there is an EOTech model that uses them.
More power, longer life, smaller package, almost the same price as a quality AA, much longer shelf life.
TR
The EOTech 553. I've spoken to the EOTech reps about it several times - most recently at the SHOT Show. It's a significant improvement. According to my POC it was developed at the behest of USASOC. All the guys using/raving about the 551/2s got a wish list together and EOTech agreed to prototype it. It's about the same size as the 551, the batteries are the same as the SureFire lights, battery life is >1000 hrs, and it has the NVG capabilities. That said it's also more expensive than the other models and I don't know if it's in general release yet. HTH - Peregrino
militarymoron
04-06-2006, 09:01
peregrino - you're right, the 553 isn't in general release yet. i did a brief writeup with pics here on a pre-production model before i sent it back to eotech:
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.optics.html#553
the one thing i liked better about the 553 is that it sits .25" higher than the other models (which i found a bit low on a flattop without a .25" riser like the larue mount).
Peregrino
04-06-2006, 15:36
MM - I just got back (literally) from the range. One of my tasks was rezeroing the carbine w/EOTech after adding Mark LaRue's mount. I wish I had added one ages ago. The extra .25" elevation gets the dot above the front sight post, makes it easier to keep track of what's below your muzzle, and gives good head position with the LMT stock I just added. Without the mount the sights co-indexed which did make it easy to check zero if you had to remove sights for any reason. Truthfully I don't think I'm going to miss the capability. As usual, I can't say enough good things about Mark LaRue or his products. All in all a productive afternoon. Peregrino
militarymoron
04-06-2006, 17:49
peregrino, correct me if i'm wrong, but you should still be able to use the irons to confirm zero on the eotech even with the larue mount. can you look through your irons through the eotech window like in the left pic below of the 553? when you turn the reticle on, it won't be centered in the window, but the dot should still co-witness and sit on top of the front sight post when you look through your irons.
Peregrino
04-06-2006, 22:01
peregrino, correct me if i'm wrong, but you should still be able to use the irons to confirm zero on the eotech even with the larue mount. can you look through your irons through the eotech window like in the left pic below of the 553? when you turn the reticle on, it won't be centered in the window, but the dot should still co-witness and sit on top of the front sight post when you look through your irons.
Yes - You are right. :o I was so happy with the less restricted FOV (less of the sight window obscured by the front sight assembly) that I misstated my point. Because it's a holograph and its apparent position in the window changes depending on head position, you can still confirm zero by aligning rear sight, center dot, and front sight. Can I get off the hook now? :D Peregrino
you can still confirm zero by aligning rear sight, center dot, and front sight. Can I get off the hook now? :D Peregrino
Will that system work with "dot" sights in general?
Gene Econ
04-07-2006, 19:30
Will that system work with "dot" sights in general?
Sten:
Roger. Thats how we get the dot sights printing on paper provided the guy has a good zero with his irons. Maintain a very good sight alignment and then adjust the dot to fit right on top of the front sight post. Should be good enough to print on paper. Then adjust the dot until you have your zero.
Gene