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Texian
03-28-2006, 21:39
In searching this site for information on this topic I have found a wealth of information that cost me a bundle in books, and took lots of time researching on the internet and asking about on other forums to find before finding it all right here. There's still so much for me to read and learn from the unique perspective of Special Forces Soldiers regarding so many topics. Thank you, Quiet Professionals, for such a terrific, informative website and for allowing me to be a guest and gain from your collective wealth of knowledge.

Now to my question:

I own a SA XD 9mm Service model. Being rather new to handguns, I've been practicing with Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ. I used the same ammo when I took my CCW exam (passed with a near perfect score. Not bad for a FNG!). Because this is the ammo I'm most proficient with thus far, I decided on the same ammo but in JHP (of course). From what I've read and been advised, this is not a bad choice. However, I was wondering what the Special Forces Soldiers, other Servicemen, Veterans, and all others in the know here would advise on this topic. I've noticed most of you prefer larger calibers, but I would like to hear what you all think is best in 9mm ammo. I'll be in silent mode reading. Thank you in advance for any reply.

swatsurgeon
03-29-2006, 13:52
if you search out the .45 ammo thread, I show "civilian" bullets (all calibers) and a description of body damage from the trauma surgeon point of view....use the search feature, you'll answer your question. If you still have questions, feel free to ask.

ss

Texian
03-29-2006, 21:45
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Doctor. I've been reading lots of threads on guns and ammo here including the one on .45 ammo throughout the day. The information is not only eye opening, but it makes one feel as if one has just been brought out of a coma.

I have one question regarding the second photo you posted on that thread. Was the SXT round 147gr 9mm or was it actually a larger caliber?

http://professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1850&page=5

swatsurgeon
03-30-2006, 14:03
the SXT was 9mm...guessing the grains...124 vs 147?????
There has been some chatter about the new cor bon round, all copper, reliable expansion but I have not dealt with any patients yet shot with one.
Based on my experience, SXT, golden sabre, gold dots have all expanded in the bodies I have dealt with. Note: this is not scientific: I haven't seen 100 of each round so possibly the next one won't expand.
Now if you want to get into LeMas issues........that has been 100% reliable in tissue so far (animal).

ss

The Reaper
03-30-2006, 14:28
I recently got a deal on some of the SXT .40 S&W, picked up the 155 gr. and am very happy with it.

At one time, CorBon loaded the Nosler 10mm 135gr. JHP, I chronyed a five round string, average was 1586fps. CorBon loads the .40 with the same bullet at a few hundred fps less.

The Federal Hydra-Shok used to be the best out there in many calibers, including 9mm, but I believe has been surpassed by a number of other loads. The Winchester SXT is a good choice in almost all calibers.

Frankly, I would not pack the 9mm for defense unless there was an overwhelming reason, like nothing else available or a specific agency requirement. If I had to use it, I would take the LeMas load.

The .45ACP is my first pick, the 10mm in a hot load would be good, otherwise the .40 S&W. The .357 SIG has good stats, but is a bit snappy, has a significant muzzle blast/flash and has yet to be used enough to know for sure. The .357 Magnum 125 gr. is a very good load for a revolver, as are some of the .44 and .45 Colt loads. I would pick any of those over the 9x19.

For military use, with only FMJs available, I would take the .45ACP over the 9x19mm just bacause of the larger hole. If you have the 9mm and FMJ, be prepared to shoot for a while until the target goes down. The .45 may do this as well, but it should be making a somewhat more significant wound with each shot. No handguns are reliable one-shot stoppers, nor are they what you would want to bring if you knew in advance there was going to be a serious shootout. A rifle or shotgun are much better performers, or better yet, bring a crew served weapon. As stated repeatedly before, ultimately, quick neutralization of the threat is critically dependent on shot placement.

Just my .02, I am merely a shooter, not a trauma surgeon or forensic pathologist.

TR

Texian
03-30-2006, 18:12
I've been researching the SXT and LeMas ammo today (the latter mainly on this website). I'd not heard of LeMas before reading about it here. Sounds like THE ammunition. Unfortunately for me, I'm a civilian and can't even get on their website. That SXT round is one mean SOB though. I think I'll start practicing with 147gr ammo and stock up on SXT. That LeMas ammo, however, does seem to be the perfect way to ruin a bad guy's plans.

Because I'm new to handguns and have only fired 9mm, I don't believe I'm ready to pick up a .45 ACP just yet. Accuracy is of utmost importance, I think, and I should be more experienced with handguns before moving to larger calibers. Also, in the Texas State Guard, we are only allowed to carry 9mm if we are placed under arms by the Governor. The good side of that is that we get to choose from a list of approved weapons and are allowed to carry whatever ammo we can get our fingers on, hence my choice in handguns.

Thank you, Sirs, for your input. If anyone has more, keep it coming. Meanwhile, I'll be doing more research.

Edit: Spelling and grammar

TFM
03-31-2006, 01:07
better yet, bring a crew served weapon

TRThats what I'm talkin about Hooah!:D


Hey Texian, if you have the option of having more than one caliber, go for it. If anything this will further your experience. I'm far from a guru, but I would not bring anything less than a .40 to a gun fight if I had the choice.

Texian
03-31-2006, 09:38
Roger that, TFM.

The only way to learn is by doing. My service weapon has to be a 9mm, but my personal piece can be anything with which I can shoot accurately. I'm going to look into the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP.

Ken Brock
03-31-2006, 21:04
I like the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P if I carry a 9mm


I'd love to try some LeMas ammo but haven't gotten around to it yet

Firearmz
01-01-2008, 19:18
I sometimes carry a G19 or a G17 and they are always loaded with Winchester Ranger T Series 127 grain +P+. This round performs well in testing and I have seen deer shot with it as well. In my 1911's I shoot the 230 grain Ranger T Series also. This line of ammo also gives me the lowest muzzle flash I have seen.

czfan
04-22-2008, 16:38
Frankly, I would not pack the 9mm for defense unless there was an overwhelming reason, like nothing else available or a specific agency requirement. If I had to use it, I would take the LeMas load.


TR

About the Lemas ammo, I've got some questions about it, as I'm evaluating the new RBCD pistol ammunition (the only type I can find available to civilians). I found the older thread in the forums here that answers some of DocGKR's ballistic issues against the Lemas ammo (http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11179).

The thing that is a bit confusing is, the ammo that is now available is what you find on the RBCD site (http://www.rbcd.net). It shows that they have a couple of versions of 9mm pistol ammo:

Civilian TFSP version: 60gr, 2010 fps, 539 ft./lbs

Performance TPD version: 50gr, 2300 fps, 590 ft./lbs


Would it be fair to say that the general points made in the above thread about the original Lemas ammo, apply equally to these RBCD civilian pistol rounds? And, if you were using one of these, would it make sense to simply choose and test the one with the best performance on paper, for possible CC use?