View Full Version : Need help with a possible poser
SgtEdWhiting
03-24-2006, 17:09
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Background:
I am a long time LEO and spent 4 years in the USAF as a Security Policeman.
I have personally met and know several SF types.
They are as advertised, quiet professionals.
Situation:
Last night I was called to a friends garage where they work on 4X4's.
There was this guy who has been hanging around there in his 50's named "John" and he was wearing a black baseball cap with the "De Oppresso Liber" patch and openly exposing his dog tags. All the younger guys think highly of this guy and he has them eating out of his hands with his tales of daring-do.
He mentioned he was in 'Nam' for 36 months straight. Further, he is a weapons specialist and the DOD routinely sends him new weapons, to his home, for his "personal" evaluation. He said he tests them and sends them on to the next eval unit. Everything up to "50 cal."
After he left, some of the senior staff at the garage were awe struck I did not pounce on him right then. That is why they called me. They are not sure what to think of the guy. I told them I needed more info first before I jump his "shit", so-to-speak. Some of the guys also told me they saw his personal "Uzi" with short barrel and he tells them it is legal here in California and still full auto. (Not true, Cali is a non class III state except for LEO'S)
I now know his true name, but will not yet post it here.
I know there is a site I can e-mail or call about Navy Seals, and, I have a Navy Seal friend that can check, but is there a site for Special Forces. ?
If there is someone here who can check ?, If so I will e-mail them.
Posing as a MOH winner is a crime, how about posing as SF ?
Thanks for looking.
The Reaper
03-24-2006, 17:24
SGT Whiting:
The story is BS.
The USG does not ship weapons to former military personnel for their "personal evaluation", even if he was SF. They have plenty of active duty personnel and civilian employees to get adequate feedback.
I would say that the onus is on him to prove the legality of anything he is stupid enough to drag out in your presence.
Claiming to be an SF soldier by itself is not a crime, unless he wears a uniform and presents himself as such.
Last time I checked, what he is doing with the weapons is another matter altogether.
There is no SF database for you to check.
TR
SgtEdWhiting
03-24-2006, 17:36
Is there anyone that can check ?
Is there any Vietnam Vets here that might know him ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Warrior-Mentor
03-24-2006, 17:39
Ask him if he's HALO...I don't mind breaking out the book to raise the bullshit flag.
As for no database for SF...the key is asking him the right questions and bouncing them off the right people.
Simple questions he should know the answer to often expose the fakes:
What team were you on? Any legit SF guy will give you an ODA number.
When? The dates will help find people who were around in that time period...of course older guys make it harder to track down his team amtes...but it still can be done.
When did you go to the SFQC? (The remember his answer and bounce off guys who may have attened in the same time period)
Sad that some need to resport to pretending to be something they're not. In a way, we could take it as a compliment...yet instead of being flattered, I find it reprehensible.
Ultimately, how much energy do you want to spend debunking a fake?
Everything is situation dependent. A clown like the one that's using BS creds to pose as an "Expert Witness" is worth expending more energy than just a loser who wants to use "bar stories" to impress kids IMHO.
JM
The Reaper
03-24-2006, 17:40
Is there anyone that can check ?
Is there any Vietnam Vets here that might know him ?
Any help would be appreciated.
Ed:
Did you read my response?
Do you not believe me?
We see dozens of posers mentioned here every month. We do not have the time or resources to run them all down when you could take action yourself. This is clearly explained in the stickies and intros.
You have been extended courtesy because you have stated that you are LE. Look at it like this. There are thousands of idiots running around flashing PI, Bounty Hunter, and Concealed Weapon Permit badges. Would you look up every one of those someone met somewhere, survey your buddies and and tell us whether the guy is a real cop or not? What if he was UC and we asked you to verify his status? We do not know who you are either, really.
Think about it.
TR
SgtEdWhiting
03-24-2006, 18:09
Yes, I read your post. It is why I am trying to be careful and not jump the gun.
Even though I am not SF, I completly understand the problem.
I don't like people stealing away your valor, so to speak.
You guys worked hard to get where you are at.
I will ask him some questions at shop night next week, and let you guys know what I find out.
If anyone wants, I will e-mail them his name.
Steve Sherman has a Data Base of most SF personnel who served in RVN.. He has every set of orders he can get his hand on. I think he charges for his info but maybe a simple check like this would be gratis. That is a good place to start. There are also several people who have his CDs "Who's Who In Vietnam" and "Who Is Who in SOG" and is working on Thailand. You can find his site by searching "Steve Sherman".
Also, if I have a name I can approach the SF List about it. It is a secure site.
I had a room mate in Germany named Scott Whiting. I had to do a double take whenm I saw the name.
BTW: There is only one way a man can become SEAL qualified and as a result the Data Base is simple. There were so many sources of SF qualification from school to pencilling in that it is imp[ossible to trace all. If he was in Vietnam though, Sherman should have a record. Most people who served that much time consecutively are fairly well known, There is one here., but I can't recall his screen name.
Posing is in itself not illegal. However, serious posers who use dtolen valor for personal gain such as employment, if found out. will be exposed to their employers, the press and their family menbers. They tend to become unemployed and in general ostracized. There are a few people in the SFA who do a professional job of outing posers.
Besides the above, posing can be an offense punishable with a severe ass whipping if the right people get ahold of them.:lifter
Ed
I agree with TR. Posers are evident everywhere..in all walks of life. They simply don't matter and aren't worth the time it takes to even worry about.
Most folks who have done something "for real" are not likely to share that info with mere aqaintences for fear of the many bullshit questions and positoning that will follow. Posers want the questions that follow...they live for it. The sure way to defeat a poser is to ignore him...they hate that.
v/r
gunpig
I'm not disagreeing with TR ot the Pig. Posers are a dime a dozen.
What I said was that if a poser is using stolen valor for personal or financial gain uinder false pretenses he needs to be exposed. Not long ago the Radio Man and someone from SFA were involved in outing one in Hendersonville who was a dective and running for Sherrif on the basis of his "SF Experience". To the best of my knowledge he is now unemployed. The way they work is to document what they have and confront the individual with said evidence then give him the opportunity to resign and make a public retraction.
QRQ
Yes, I suppose that's an exception when one has to pay attention to a poser. If a poser was to represent himself as a Lawyer, Doctor, or any other regulated profession...for financial gain or employment, that's fraud..pure and simple. Just saying "I was SF, SEAL, Ranger, etc" to have a better shot at some "space drink" (Poon-Tang), is in poor taste, but is not a crime.
I've found that type of person misses the mark anyhow when their big-ol'- gut telegrahphs their pogieness well before the words or their fabricated daring-do leaves their mouth.
BTW..."the Pig" ...I like that. Some think I am the "unlcean beast"
gunpig
Ask him if he was a "Raider" in Vietnam....if he understands that, he'll be able to tell you. We all know what a "Raider" is....I won't mention the name completely but let us know what he says. Like the reaper said though, we don't know you either.
NousDefionsDoc
03-24-2006, 21:28
Great post Boss. Dude, go with what the Reaper says.
Warrior-Mentor
03-25-2006, 02:47
Ask him if he was a "Raider" in Vietnam....if he understands that, he'll be able to tell you. We all know what a "Raider" is....I won't mention the name completely but let us know what he says. Like the reaper said though, we don't know you either.
Then get a book called "The Raid" by Benjamin Schemmer and see if his name is in it.
I have had a problem on another board since there is at least one wannabe check per week. I really hate this. It seems that people are more interested in checking bona fides of acquaintences than just being polite. Personally I usually say "Hi!, how do you do". If they say they were SF I say "Fine" and let it go at that. I have no pedestal to preserve.
Sometimes it seems that even uf TR and I agree on something, someone will build a fence between us. That's OK since counterpoint is good.
I saw the name Whiting and also LEO and presumed the man had a real need. If so follow the steps above. Stupid "trip up" questions really burn me. If someone trying to prove or disprove my credentials asks a stupid question I am subject to give an equally outlandish answer for him to chew on. When I was much younger I once asked an 82nd hero if he wanted to go back to his unit and admit he just had his ass whipped by a "Leg".
Not always the QP. That comes with age.
SgtEdWhiting
03-27-2006, 13:35
Just read the posts I missed this weekend.
I appreciate all the help and advice.
Normally I would not get too involved as you guys are right about one thing, posers are a dime a dozen. I had a problem when I heard he was telling young impressionable kids about his "daring do's" if they are not real.
I came to this board as a friend I respect told me this would be a good place to start/and/or get advice. I do not wish to cause this board or any members any trouble whatsoever.
And, although I am good at catching bad guys and interviewing them, this is different. I am out of my class, so to speak. I do not want to make a mis step, I want to be sure.
Thanks, I will let you know later this week what I find out.
I would let it ride. Some really big fish have been outed: College Presidents, LEO, IIRC a government official, even officers of various service organizations including one you just wouldn't believe.
The little fish frequently expose themselves and/or get themselves into serious trouble. There have been cases, usually REMFS who come back with tales of torture and atrocites hoping to impress the gang back home only to find the law knocking on the door with arrest warrants. Then they have to back pedal and try to convince the Law that they were lieing. Serves them right.
:
I have had a problem on another board since there is at least one wannabe check per week. I really hate this. It seems that people are more interested in checking bona fides of acquaintences than just being polite. Personally I usually say "Hi!, how do you do". If they say they were SF I say "Fine" and let it go at that. I have no pedestal to preserve.If you were doing the type of work that some us do...you would want to know an individual(s) background. "I need to know who's covering my ass when working."
"I was an 18B"...yet the SOB could not disassemble an AK-47?:confused: :eek:
I've worked with guys who've claimed "such and such" background...and could not read a map! Or...tried to zero an M4 from the kneeling position...
I'll go when and where they tell me...If I have a choice on whom is going? It damn sure won't be someone that lied about there background.
Stay safe.
Guy: I fully understand your bushel of apples. My bushel is of oranges, I am talking of the casual meeting such as in a parking lot, flea market etc. If a man introduces himself I say "Hi" or in this neck of the woods "Hey!". I ask no questions and volunteer no info. To conduct a BI on each and every casual acquaintence you meet is IMO rude.
My line of work now is whatevger and whenever I want. I intend to enjoy life and allow others to do likewise.
Team Sergeant
03-27-2006, 15:34
This thread should have ended after The Reaper's "First" post.
We are not in the business of outing IDIOTS and were not going to look and see if someone is a poser, fake, phony for just anyone that registers on this board.
This thread is closed.