View Full Version : Thanks from across the pond
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 17:52
A big thanks from the mum of a British squaddie who was "fast jet evacuated" earlier this week by one of your B10 bombers out of extremely hostile territory. Ok, not quite a jet, but I don't think he was going to quibble! Alternative was a 2 day tab out of badlands which may not have ended well. Great flying by the stars and stripes (B10 hooked up to a balloon with the patrol hanging on the end).
:) :)
The Reaper
03-16-2006, 17:58
A big thanks from the mum of a British squaddie who was "fast jet evacuated" earlier this week by one of your B10 bombers out of extremely hostile territory. Ok, not quite a jet, but I don't think he was going to quibble! Alternative was a 2 day tab out of badlands which may not have ended well. Great flying by the stars and stripes (B10 hooked up to a balloon with the patrol hanging on the end).
:) :)
Madam:
Either you are confused, or someone appears to have been making up stories.
The B10 last flew in the 1920s, IIRC, the extraction you describe lifts only one person at the time, the system was never installed on any bombers, and it has not been used since the late 80s/early '90s.
TR
COL Kirby is at work again!
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 18:47
Sir,
It is possible I've misheard the type of plane because I don't know American planes very well and, in that event, I apologise. It wasn't a chopper but neither was it a fast jet but definitely was American.
However it was 4 men in one go involving harnesses and a balloon. I could even tell you exactly where and when this happened but, naturally with OPSEC, I can't. He had a broken wrist at the time too. I also know that they did this on exercise this year with 5 men all linked to the one cable.
This type of exfiltration is certainly used over here with a definite distinction between choppers and fast jet extractions.
You no longer do HALO over there nor, I believe, does your airforce do low level attacks below 250ft. But we still do over here.
And, sir, my son doesn't make up stories... he doesn't need to. I could tell you things he has done that would perhaps warrant being dismissed as "stories" (although they aren't) but why bother? I'm not just some starry-eyed mother - I know who he works with and what he does for a fact. (Most of the time, it frightens the life out of me.)
All I wanted to do was say thank you!
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 18:56
You may also be interested to know (or perhaps not) that he has an open invitation to join your Delta lads whenever he chooses.
The Reaper
03-16-2006, 19:02
Sir,
It is possible I've misheard the type of plane because I don't know American planes very well and, in that event, I apologise. It wasn't a chopper but neither was it a fast jet but definitely was American.
However it was 4 men in one go involving harnesses and a balloon. I could even tell you exactly where and when this happened but, naturally with OPSEC, I can't. He had a broken wrist at the time too. I also know that they did this on exercise this year with 5 men all linked to the one cable.
This type of exfiltration is certainly used over here with a definite distinction between choppers and fast jet extractions.
You no longer do HALO over there nor, I believe, does your airforce do low level attacks below 250ft. But we still do over here.
And, sir, my son doesn't make up stories... he doesn't need to. I could tell you things he has done that would perhaps warrant being dismissed as "stories" (although they aren't) but why bother? I'm not just some starry-eyed mother - I know who he works with and what he does for a fact. (Most of the time, it frightens the life out of me.)
All I wanted to do was say thank you!
Ma'am:
You are very welcome, wherever you get your info.
If you are referring to the Fulton Extraction system, or Skyhook, it is not possible with a helicopter, or a fast mover. IIRC, the only aircraft in the US inventory which was formerly rigged for Fulton Extraction was not a bomber, but the C-130 Hercules cargo plane. The MC-130E specifically. It has never been configured for multiple personnel extraction, and the last time it was tested with live passengers, it killed so many that they stopped the test early. Maybe you have some other variant of the system that also uses a balloon and a cable recovery system. I only have a few hours in freefall, but that is one ride I do not care to make.
You are misinformed on what we do not do here as well, but that is of little consequence. Have a very nice evening regardless.
TR
CPTAUSRET
03-16-2006, 19:04
You may also be interested to know (or perhaps not) that he has an open invitation to join your Delta lads whenever he chooses.
Of course he does!
Terry
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 19:28
Sir
Thank you, I'm about to go to bed; it's very late over here.
Whatever variant we use, this was definitely a multiple extraction and an American plane. He's home in a couple of week so I'll try to find out more then and, if you're in any way interested, I'll let you know. If it helps decide which type of plane, the gun was taken off the front to be replaced by the extraction hook. Beyond that, my knowledge of planes is fairly limited. Your politeness is a credit to you although I would suggest that perhaps there are things happening out there that you don't know about.
And Terry, not only him but all of the specialised unit he beongs to. Your cynicism is not very credit-worthy. Perhaps you don't realise how much your SF and ours work together! Read some Rumsfeld reports.
CPTAUSRET
03-16-2006, 19:31
Sir
Thank you, I'm about to go to bed; it's very late over here.
Whatever variant we use, this was definitely a multiple extraction and an American plane. He's home in a couple of week so I'll try to find out more then and, if you're in any way interested, I'll let you know. If it helps decide which type of plane, the gun was taken off the front to be replaced by the extraction hook. Beyond that, my knowledge of planes is fairly limited. Your politeness is a credit to you although I would suggest that perhaps there are things happening out there that you don't know about.
And Terry, not only him but all of the specialised unit he beongs to. Your cynicism is not very credit-worthy. Perhaps you don't realise how much your SF and ours work together! Read some Rumsfeld reports.
Well, Mum, perhaps I was a bit hasty. I will withdraw my remarks if you will post up some war stories, being ever mindful of OPSEC/PERSEC.
Deal?
Terry
The Reaper
03-16-2006, 20:05
Mrs. TwoShoes:
Maybe it is losing something in translation and he could log on to tell us the details himself when he returns?
Always eager to learn something new.
TR
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 20:42
Terry, I just PM'ed you. But I'll repeat something I said in that PM. Basra, Iraq a few months ago: UK media (not sure about American) reported 2 SAS held in an Iraqi policestation and then handed over to insurgents. British forces stormed the policestation. A riot happened outside and there were some dreadful pictures of our armoured vehicles being petrol-bombed. Our forces quickly found the 2 who had been moved to a house in Basra. They weren't SAS though, they were SBS who had blown their cover. My son was flown out. He lost a good friend that day. Afterwards, a major brawl ensued in the SF accomm between the SAS and the SBS because of this loss. Whenever any British SF are involved, the media always says it's the SAS!
I used to go out with an SBS bloke in my younger, wilder days. He was a total nutter.
Because of OPSEC, it's very difficult to say anything much.
TR, he rarely comes online when he's home because he spends the whole time shagging, sleeping and eating. But I'll find out what I can. He'll probably slap me for what I've already said though. You're right that there could be something lost in translation although I know that hasn't happened about the multiple extraction (which he's done before) and the American plane. Did the gun on the front say anything to you?
The Reaper
03-16-2006, 20:50
TR, he rarely comes online when he's home because he spends the whole time shagging, sleeping and eating. But I'll find out what I can. He'll probably slap me for what I've already said though. You're right that there could be something lost in translation although I know that hasn't happened about the multiple extraction (which he's done before) and the American plane. Did the gun on the front say anything to you?
Understood.
We have an A10, a slow flying jet with a cannon under the nose, maybe that was what he said?
TR
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 21:06
Mr Reaper
The 'slow flying jet' part sounds about right. It wasn't a chopper because he said plane but he was disappointed that it wasn't a fast jet, so it was clearly something in between.
Would this A10 have the capability of this kind of extraction? I don't know if the blokes are usually winched up or if they just hang on and then drop off. He often seems to jump (parachute-less although he's airbourne too) from some great heights. Do you think they would be winched up routinely in which case the A10 would need to have a suitable hatch underneath? If there are any SF pilots out there, couldn't you ask around to see who did this extraction this week? I would really like to personally thank them.
I know a bit about British planes because I used to work in Gibraltar which had the RAF based out there but I'm an idiot when it comes to anyone else's airforces.
Talking of jumping from great heights, during his recent leave he jumped from a girl's 2nd floor window the next morning as her parents were waking up. He apparently left two very large heel marks in the lawn. He's a bit of a naughty boy with the girls!
he rarely comes online when he's home because he spends the whole time shagging, sleeping and eating. :D
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 21:37
You may laugh but I'm the one that has to deal with the tears and phone calls when each one finds out she's "not the only one", usually when he's out of the country!
The boy is a slut, plain and simple. He's more likely to die from some dreadful sexual disease than from an op. Or some mad bunny boiler will stab him one day. When it comes to his women, I despair!
When it comes to his women, I despair!spoken like a mom...;)
Ruby2Shoes
03-16-2006, 21:53
Haha I know. But actually I understand how he gets when he's at home... he just wants major stress relief and, despite the problems I get from them, I'm glad these women provide that relief.
Bed-time for me. Nice chatting to you all... once you'd got over your cynicism ---> Terry!
:p
CPTAUSRET
03-16-2006, 22:08
Bed-time for me. Nice chatting to you all... once you'd got over your cynicism ---> Terry!
:p
You got me there, Mum!;)
Terry
Mr Reaper
The 'slow flying jet' part sounds about right. It wasn't a chopper because he said plane but he was disappointed that it wasn't a fast jet, so it was clearly something in between.
Would this A10 have the capability of this kind of extraction? I don't know if the blokes are usually winched up or if they just hang on and then drop off. He often seems to jump (parachute-less although he's airbourne too) from some great heights. Do you think they would be winched up routinely in which case the A10 would need to have a suitable hatch underneath? If there are any SF pilots out there, couldn't you ask around to see who did this extraction this week? I would really like to personally thank them.
I know a bit about British planes because I used to work in Gibraltar which had the RAF based out there but I'm an idiot when it comes to anyone else's airforces.
Talking of jumping from great heights, during his recent leave he jumped from a girl's 2nd floor window the next morning as her parents were waking up. He apparently left two very large heel marks in the lawn. He's a bit of a naughty boy with the girls!
Ruby2Shoes
What you describe is very puzzling and perhaps...just perhaps...there are some wires crossed in the message. I am involved in US Air Forces...specifically Special Operations aircraft, with 30 years experience and a Master's degree in Aeronautical Science. Please riddle me this Mum; if a fixed wing aircraft such as the A-10 picked someone up via a cable supended by a balloon, and somehow gets winched up under the aircraft...just how will the aircraft land without killing the suspended individual? An A-10 does not "hover" to let people off...instead it lands at about 80-100 MPH depending on how heavy it is. To keep from becoming "runway Pizza, just how would soemone keep from getting dragged on the runway by a cable? Does he hang onto the pylon/bomb rack? Does he climb over the wing and hang on for dear life like a 1920s "barnstormer? What about multiple personnel like you described..the plane only has one seat...and it's under glass ...and occupied by the Pilot. No room for passengers now is there.
I don't think they would parachute to safety once out of harms way either since a parachute would likely be more a a hazard than an asset. If the parachute would open when being "towed" the aircraft would experience control problems and the person being extracted would likely be ripped in two. I'm not sure what sort of "hatch" underneath an A-10 would do either, the A-10 can not fly without the weight of the gun as ballast and even if it could, there's not room for one person in the gun bay let alone three. The only American I know who has ever attemped such a feat is Bill Braxley...have you heard of him 'cross the pond?
What you describe seems more like a helo emergency extraction...cable, but no balloon.
Who wouldn't like Pie & Chips?
Gunpig
This thread reminded me of something. A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets". I was surprised to see the method in a '44 or '45 war movie.
Turns out it was the "All American System" and it was used by the military as early as '43 and an earlier system used in the '20s for mail.
The Reaper
03-16-2006, 22:46
This thread reminded me of something. A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets". I was surprised to see the method in a '44 or '45 war movie.
Turns out it was the "All American System" and it was used by the military as early as '43 and an earlier system used in the '20s for mail.
I met a retired glider rider who rode the recovery out. He said that it was the worst experience of his life. Made jumping look easy.
The recovery method in The Green Berets is the Fulton "STAR" we discussed. Killed a lot of people, and almost got a general in the early 60s.
We used to teach that glider recovery type method for message pick-ups, or essentially, mail service.
TR
As hard as the landings were for the Glider troops it's hard to believe they'd try to pick one up that way.
The Fulton impressed me as a ride I would never want to try either.
Heh, and now that you mention Generals almost got, it reminded me of another story I heard.
Do you know anything of an experiment door mounting .50s onto the UH1s during Vietnam?
CPTAUSRET
03-16-2006, 23:21
As hard as the landings were for the Glider troops it's hard to believe they'd try to pick one up that way.
The Fulton impressed me as a ride I would never want to try either.
Heh, and now that you mention Generals almost got, it reminded me of another story I heard.
Do you know anything of an experiment door mounting .50s onto the UH1s during Vietnam?
We had one or two, used them as flare ships.
Terry
I met a retired glider rider who rode the recovery out. He said that it was the worst experience of his life. Made jumping look easy.
The recovery method in The Green Berets is the Fulton "STAR" we discussed. Killed a lot of people, and almost got a general in the early 60s.
We used to teach that glider recovery type method for message pick-ups, or essentially, mail service.
TR
When I went about a year ago they still taught the message pick-up, probably with the same 70-year old man hoisting the canisters. That dude is hard as woddpecker lips. Still jumps out of airplanes...:lifter
......A week or so ago I was watching an old WWII movie and saw a recovery of a Waco type Glider by a C-47, done much like the recovery method in "Green Berets"......
The movie was Operation Burma, made back in the good ol' days of the left coast movie making.
The Brits also have a number of good B/W war morvies. We just never get a chance to see them.
Pete
Warrior-Mentor
03-17-2006, 10:54
Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?
The Reaper
03-17-2006, 11:07
Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?
Not to my knowledge, by either the MC or the AFSOC.
You want to go from zero to 100+kts. and up to 500 feet in about a second, then fly through the air tied to a rope with three other dudes while they winch you in across the ramp??
TR
CPTAUSRET
03-17-2006, 11:27
Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?
I think it will be fairly soon, I also think it is the wrong aircraft!
Terry
We had one or two, used them as flare ships.
Terry
I was told a story, and maybe just that, that there was some experimentation with replacing the UH1s M-60 pedestal door gun with a .50. That a high ranking officer wanted to be first to try, but someone forgot the pins to secure the gun on the swivel mount and the gun jumped up and smacked the officer. That, according to the story, was the end of having a .50 door gunner in a Huey.
Roguish Lawyer
03-17-2006, 11:40
Boy, it sure would be an honor to meet your son, ruby. I hope you can get him on here soon. :)
CPTAUSRET
03-17-2006, 11:59
I was told a story, and maybe just that, that there was some experimentation with replacing the UH1s M-60 pedestal door gun with a .50. That a high ranking officer wanted to be first to try, but someone forgot the pins to secure the gun on the swivel mount and the gun jumped up and smacked the officer. That, according to the story, was the end of having a .50 door gunner in a Huey.
That could be a true story in whatever AO that GO held sway, but in 66 we had a couple of H-model Hueys mounted with .50's. They were utilized for airfield security as flare ships, and they also ran the canals at night looking for Sampans, a large searchlight lit up the Sampans very well, as did the .50's!.
Terry
CPTAUSRET
03-17-2006, 12:54
The only pic I have of a .50 mounted on a Huey is on a password protected site. So I can't provide a link, but here is a 20 MM on a D model.
http://gunsagogo.org/0009/0114.jpg
Terry
Holy crap! :eek: That's some fierce looking hardware, must have been a heavy load with the ammo cans for those old UH1s.
That's some pretty good deck reinforcement for the pedestal too.
CPTAUSRET
03-17-2006, 13:02
Holy crap! :eek: That's some fierce looking hardware, must have been a heavy load with the ammo cans for those old UH1s.
That's some pretty good deck reinforcement for the pedestal too.
As I recall there were a few mounting prob's with the .50, lots of recoil needed to be absorbed somewhere, several plate config's were used.
Terry
My first MOS was 45J, they didn't show us that one.
Yeah it was the recoil that got the officer in the story. They told it at Bragg, Simmons AAF.
Kyobanim
03-17-2006, 13:30
Is the V-22 Osprey operational yet?
Funny you should mention that. We've had one dressed up in green military clothes flying east to west and back for a couple of weeks here in Orlando. First time I saw it I didn't hear it until it was right over me, no buildings around, I was at a park surrounded by trees. Seemed to be noise stealthy at least. The person flying that thing is jerking it all over the sky. Pretty cool to witness.
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 15:50
Ruby2Shoes
What you describe is very puzzling and perhaps...just perhaps...there are some wires crossed in the message. I am involved in US Air Forces...specifically Special Operations aircraft, with 30 years experience and a Master's degree in Aeronautical Science. Please riddle me this Mum; if a fixed wing aircraft such as the A-10 picked someone up via a cable supended by a balloon, and somehow gets winched up under the aircraft...just how will the aircraft land without killing the suspended individual? An A-10 does not "hover" to let people off...instead it lands at about 80-100 MPH depending on how heavy it is. To keep from becoming "runway Pizza, just how would soemone keep from getting dragged on the runway by a cable? Does he hang onto the pylon/bomb rack? Does he climb over the wing and hang on for dear life like a 1920s "barnstormer? What about multiple personnel like you described..the plane only has one seat...and it's under glass ...and occupied by the Pilot. No room for passengers now is there.
I don't think they would parachute to safety once out of harms way either since a parachute would likely be more a a hazard than an asset. If the parachute would open when being "towed" the aircraft would experience control problems and the person being extracted would likely be ripped in two. I'm not sure what sort of "hatch" underneath an A-10 would do either, the A-10 can not fly without the weight of the gun as ballast and even if it could, there's not room for one person in the gun bay let alone three. The only American I know who has ever attemped such a feat is Bill Braxley...have you heard of him 'cross the pond?
What you describe seems more like a helo emergency extraction...cable, but no balloon.
Who wouldn't like Pie & Chips?
Gunpig
Gunpig
I've already said that I may have some wires crossed re: the plane. It's clearly not the B10 that I thought I heard. I didn't suggest the A10, someone else on here did. I don't know your planes... hence the discussion! (Without the need for silly remarks, thank you.)
However, some of this I definitely haven't misunderstood because I've heard it plenty of times before. Are you suggesting that there's no such thing as a 'fast jet extraction' because I know that there is - certainly with our jets anyway. There was definitely a balloon involved which, again, I've heard about before. He sounded disappointed that it was a plane and not a "fast jet".
He wouldn't bother mentioning a helo extraction - that's fairly normal stuff.
It was an American plane (he specifically mentioned that because he was pleased that the yanks had helped), it's gun had been replaced by the hook, it was a multiple extraction (it had to be!). I thought he said "bomber" but can't be certain of that. But I've no idea if they were winched up, towed or how they landed. I've sent a text to him to see if I can find out any more although I've no idea when I'll get a reply.
To be honest, lads, I've heard about these extractions enough times before but not bothered to wonder how they actually worked. I knew they were dangerous but, until you all started talking, I actually didn't realise just what a death-defying feat they are. I'm wracking my brains now to remember details of these extractions when he's talked about them in the past. The only other thing I recall him saying in the past is that the cable's 500ft long. I can see you're puzzled over the details and so am I now. But please don't doubt the veracity because this stuff happens, certainly with our boys, although it's obviously not an every day occurrence (because, thankfully, they're not in that kind of pickle every day).
Just a thought: could they have been dropped into water? I say this because I know of a time last year when he did something similar although not in the form of an exfiltration and not a million miles away from your locale either.
Why on earth would they open their parachutes whilst being towed? Of course that's insane. But they could unhook their harnesses and then open chutes as soon as they were over safe territory. All of the lads involved (and I know some of them very well) are para-trained.
I'm afraid I haven't heard of Bill Braxley.
Talking of aircraft, let me know your thoughts on this one: Last year he & his bunch were parachuted into somewhere I can't mention. They were supposed to be dropped into a lake by the Herc but the female navigator cocked up and dropped them into trees at the edge of the lake (I think she wasn't SF trained). Few minor scrapes occurred and they were a bit ruffled but otherwise ok. They then swam out into the lake where the SBS were waiting in ribs, leaning out and hooking them into the ribs with hoops. A Chinook then literally went into the water with its back open and the ribs drove straight into the Chinook and they flew away to do the things they do. He said that the water was absolutely filthy and he got a toe infection from it. I found the Chinook bit incredible but I don't know if it's routine or not. You're probably going to tell me now that it couldn't have been a Chinook!
As for pie and chips... my dear, are you a chav?
The Reaper
03-17-2006, 15:56
Talking of aircraft, let me know your thoughts on this one: Last year he & his bunch were parachuted into somewhere I can't mention. They were supposed to be dropped into a lake by the Herc but the female navigator cocked up and dropped them into trees at the edge of the lake (I think she wasn't SF trained). Few minor scrapes occurred and they were a bit ruffled but otherwise ok. They then swam out into the lake where the SBS were waiting in ribs, leaning out and hooking them into the ribs with hoops. A Chinook then literally went into the water with its back open and the ribs drove straight into the Chinook and they flew away to do the things they do. He said that the water was absolutely filthy and he got a toe infection from it. I found the Chinook bit incredible but I don't know if it's routine or not. You're probably going to tell me now that it couldn't have been a Chinook!
As for pie and chips... my dear, are you a chav?
This is fairly common, I have done it myself, but you cannot put more than one boat per Chinook, IIRC.
TR
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 16:24
This is fairly common, I have done it myself, but you cannot put more than one boat per Chinook, IIRC.
TR
Good evening, Mr Reaper.
I enjoy chatting with you; perhaps it's the avatar. Do you look like John Wayne?
Whether it's routine or not, I liked the sound of it. Knowing the unit, there would have been at least 2 ribs used and you could get at least 2 in the back of a Chinook. It's highly likely of course that your ribs are bigger than ours (lol) because everything of yours is bigger than ours... not that most of us here really mind that. I'm 5'2" and I know good things come in small packages!
:p
Hummmm....Recovery Plane for FRS.
B10....or something along those lines.
Not a Jet....more than likely a multi engine turbo prop plane.
Possibly a bomber.
The hook is in place of where the gun(s) were.
Sounds like a B-17 G model.
Like the one seen at the end of the James Bond movie Thunderball.
:munchin
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 16:38
Hummmm....Recovery Plane for FRS.
B10....or something along those lines.
Not a Jet....more than likely a multi engine turbo prop plane.
Possibly a bomber.
The hook is in place of where the gun(s) were.
Sounds like a B-17 G model.
Like the one seen at the end of the James Bond movie Thunderball.
:munchin
Just yelled this out to my ex-Army partner in the next room and he's asking, "Is this the Liberator and are they still flying them?"
Just yelled this out to my ex-Army partner in the next room and he's asking, "Is this the Liberator and are they still flying them?"
Noooo....the Liberator was/is the B-24
The B-17's were/are called Flying Fortress. The Queens of the sky, back some 60 odd years ago.
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 16:53
So are the B17s still flying and would they make sense for this extraction? Would they have a current presence in the Middle East too? Where's that aeronautical pigman gone... bet he'll give us plenty of details.
So are the B17s still flying and would they make sense for this extraction? Would they have a current presence in the Middle East too?
Only as flying museums, flying with groups like the Confederate Air Force and such.
Could there be a presence of them in the M.E ??? It's possible. I know there are C-47s flying around Central and South America.
Warrior-Mentor
03-17-2006, 18:04
Funny you should mention that. We've had one dressed up in green military clothes flying east to west and back for a couple of weeks here in Orlando. First time I saw it I didn't hear it until it was right over me, no buildings around, I was at a park surrounded by trees. Seemed to be noise stealthy at least. The person flying that thing is jerking it all over the sky. Pretty cool to witness.
Only asked because it seamed like about the only "plane" I could think of that might be able to perform a multiple person extract described by Ms. 2shoes.
JM
Good evening Madam
So sorry about the late reply but I have been out and about on the town. I think you may be narrowing the mystery down quite well. If we could only get your Son to post on this site to confirm the aircraft, that would be wonderful.
It is possible I suppose that the B17 could perfrom the feat you described. My Wife's Grandfather was staioned at Polebrook England (with Clark Gable) back during WW-Bigone and I do recall a story about the "Turret Snatch" mode of equipment recovery. The experimental equipment was kind of rough, and was simply known as "the snatch". Boys will be boys, and they used the "snatch" as often as they could... and after a while it was getting wore out. They were very happy to have a snatch in thier squadron, even if it was not very pretty to look at. During one of the Schwienfurt raids (on the ball bearing plant) the snatch was destroyed by a large set of balls and an oxygen bottle which was blown into the air by the force of the bomb-loads. Thus ended that version of the snatch, but there are probably many others they could have put in it's place.
I'm not sure if anyone ever used that particualr snatch to snag people however. From what I undersatnd, it was pretty nasty to look at and nobody thought it was safe unless they had at least two pints in them....or so the story goes.
The B-17 is a good plane, but it's awfully hard to find the AVGAS to run them these days. I suppose it's possible that they could have modified them to use turboprops, but if they did, it would surely be classified...and we would not want the Huns to find out if we did.
I'm excited to learn more about the "fast jet" extraction. Looks like your Blokes have beat us to the technology table again.
Gunpig
So are the B17s still flying and would they make sense for this extraction? Would they have a current presence in the Middle East too? Where's that aeronautical pigman gone... bet he'll give us plenty of details.
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 20:18
Someone posted here about an American plane called an Osprey; is this a possibility as well as the B17?
I googled a pic of one and it made me wonder about something. This Osprey has a pointy thing at the front and what my son said was, "there was a hook at the front where the gun usually is". I took that to mean that the gun had been taken off but I'm now wondering if he didn't mean that and it's really a type of plane that wouldn't have a gun at the front and all he was doing was describing where the hook was positioned. Am I making any sense here? I didn't want to mislead and have you all thinking that it has to be a plane that would normally have a gun on the front.
I'll try to get my son online but it's doubtful for the reasons mentioned earlier. The only time he tends to go online is to do something dirty with a webcam but otherwise he can't sit still long enough for forums etc. He's back at camp in a couple of weeks and hopefully coming home for a weekend. I will at least be able to phone him... no reply to my text tonight and I seriously hope he hasn't gone out again - he was only meant to be on a boring exercise. In the meantime, you'll have to put up with his silly old mum.
:D
Someone posted here about an American plane called an Osprey; is this a possibility as well as the B17?
I googled a pic of one and it made me wonder about something. This Osprey has a pointy thing at the front and what my son said was, "there was a hook at the front where the gun usually is". I took that to mean that the gun had been taken off but I'm now wondering if he didn't mean that and it's really a type of plane that wouldn't have a gun at the front and all he was doing was describing where the hook was positioned. Am I making any sense here? I didn't want to mislead and have you all thinking that it has to be a plane that would normally have a gun on the front.
I'll try to get my son online but it's doubtful for the reasons mentioned earlier. The only time he tends to go online is to do something dirty with a webcam but otherwise he can't sit still long enough for forums etc. He's back at camp in a couple of weeks and hopefully coming home for a weekend. I will at least be able to phone him... no reply to my text tonight and I seriously hope he hasn't gone out again - he was only meant to be on a boring exercise. In the meantime, you'll have to put up with his silly old mum.
:D
Madam
It is possible that it could be an MV-22 Osprey, but the protruberence projecting from the nose is not a gun...it's a refueling probe. The MV-22 can land like a helicopter, so I don't know why there would be a need for a balloon and cable unless they were in very rough terrian and they could not land. Even then, the Osprey would drop a "cable" from the "hell hole" (at hole in the fuselage), not endanger the aircraft..with those 20+ foot proprotors by having a cable anwhere near them...hooked to a a balloon. Did you ever wonder where the balloon and helium bottle came from? Did your Son have it in his rucksack or something? Maybe the aircraft dropped it to them with a GPS guided airfoil?
Was he in the H-K mountains when recovered? Sounds like we may be getting somewhere now. Looks like your son is much tougher than any US Navy SEAL I have ever met, but he'll still have to work hard to keep up with US Army SF. Maybe you could ask his to come to JFKSWCS the help train US Soldiers, Airmen, and sailors on some of the very daring procedures you have described. That would be great...
Aeroswine
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 21:31
Gunpig, why have you changed into Aeroswine; are you one and the same or am I talking to someone else now?
I knew the Osprey's "pointy thing" wasn't a gun but I didn't know it was for refuelling.
They were in very rough terrain and nothing could have landed. I'll pm you where it was but it wasn't H-K. He told me that his legs were in bits when he got back.
I've no idea how they got the balloon, helium bottle or harnesses. But I am aware that they carry ridiculous loads sometimes however, from what he's already said to me about the work in this particular terrain, I doubt they were carrying much at all. They've been training recently on how little they can get away with carrying and for how long, including water (which I find quite worrying). He has also trained a lot and put into practice in the past year various types of extractions (which often involved balloons, harnesses etc) and that's why this week's 'adventure' didn't surprise me at all.
Remember, I'm a mum, and I hear a lot of general stuff without always knowing the finer details. What I've said in this thread is what he's told me and it's hard to put the detailed picture together.
Just a thought: if it's a short distance and refuelling isn't necessary, could a probe be removed in favour of a hook?
You cheeky monkey! Have you considered that the US Army SF may have to work hard to keep up with him and his unit? And he may choose to go over to the Aussies rather than the US. Actually, I don't believe he'll do either because he's very patriotic. As for training, he's too young and enjoying what he's doing to think about training anyone else - that would be appropriate when he's too old for this work, but not now.
Gunpig, why have you changed into Aeroswine; are you one and the same or am I talking to someone else now?
I knew the Osprey's "pointy thing" wasn't a gun but I didn't know it was for refuelling.
They were in very rough terrain and nothing could have landed. I'll pm you where it was but it wasn't H-K. He told me that his legs were in bits when he got back.
I've no idea how they got the balloon, helium bottle or harnesses. But I am aware that they carry ridiculous loads sometimes however, from what he's already said to me about the work in this particular terrain, I doubt they were carrying much at all. They've been training recently on how little they can get away with carrying and for how long, including water (which I find quite worrying). He has also trained a lot and put into practice in the past year various types of extractions (which often involved balloons, harnesses etc) and that's why this week's 'adventure' didn't surprise me at all.
Remember, I'm a mum, and I hear a lot of general stuff without always knowing the finer details. What I've said in this thread is what he's told me and it's hard to put the detailed picture together.
Just a thought: if it's a short distance and refuelling isn't necessary, could a probe be removed in favour of a hook?
You cheeky monkey! Have you considered that the US Army SF may have to work hard to keep up with him and his unit? And he may choose to go over to the Aussies rather than the US. Actually, I don't believe he'll do either because he's very patriotic. As for training, he's too young and enjoying what he's doing to think about training anyone else - that would be appropriate when he's too old for this work, but not now.
Ms. R2S
You must be worried to death about your Son and obviously losing sleep since you are awake at almost 4 am. You poor Dear!
Aeroswine is just a different slant on the name "gunpig" that's all...a spot of humor if you will. I have a question for you though...what is the rib you spoke of? I didn't know they would carry such a bulky food item in the ration kit. Seems like the bones would be a lot of wasted space in the rucksack. Maybe they fashion tools from them like Rambo or Bill Braxlsley? I don't know. Please explain if I am out of context here...I'm confused about that one. I suppose they could have loaded the helium bottle on Horseback and used "Horse flatulence" to fill the balloon? When those horses get in the poppy fields and get their fill, Timothy Leary would be impressed...but the horsie emissions are absoluelty foul...but lighter than air nevertheless! maybe thats what filled the balloon? In any case, with the horses being used over there I'm sure there's something relating to a Horse in this story somewhwere.
Gunpig
Ruby2Shoes
03-17-2006, 22:24
Gunpig, I've noticed your rudeness and sarcasm and have tried to rise above it.
To take the p*ss out of a mum's worry is extremely low. You only shame yourself.
I will not reply to you again because my original well-meant thank you was clearly wasted on you. Please don't respond to my earlier PM.
Gunpig, I've noticed your rudeness and sarcasm and have tried to rise above it.
To take the p*ss out of a mum's worry is extremely low. You only shame yourself.
I will not reply to you again because my original well-meant thank you was clearly wasted on you. Please don't respond to my earlier PM.
R2S
Maybe something was lost in traslation from American English to British English. I did not intend to be rude and since I am an Air Force guy, I don't know a lot of the ground forces terminology as you do. I guess it's fair so say you are similarly challenged with air terminology or we would not be discussusing this subject right now.
I'm not certain you realize we are using Equine mammals as a matter of course in A-Stan. Vehicles just won't cut the mustard over there in many places since the terrain is so mountainous. The use of horses in not a joke...it is reality.
I'll bet your Son's AO is just as tough as the other hooahs over there and I'd be awake at night too if my kid was over there. When will your son get some CTO and relax for a while? Sounds like he got busted up a bit on this one and maybe they will let him come home PTDY or something. What do you think?
Gunpig
admin edit: "Ruby2Shoes, Your either lying to us about who you are or your son is blatantly lying to you. Either way this thread is closed. Goodbye"